Grout systems for blocks

[marsaday]

I am about to lay my first sandstone block drive (my own place).

The base is done and i am waiting for the blocks to arrive so doing some research on the mortar to use in the joints.

I am bedding the blocks on a mortar mix, so it will be rigid.

The gaps will be 5-7mm wide.

I have seen the video about the 840+ polymeric mortar tony has used.

I have also come across Tuff Top made by Tuffbau. This looks very similar to 840+, but is free of polymer and resin.

So could anyone tell me what the difference there is between the two products. Anyone used the Tuff top ? I am leaning towards this product as i have a local supplier near me and i can pick up when i need.

[marsaday]

I have had some prices back from the two suppliers.

For the VDW 800 it is £80 a tub. So about £680 delivered for what i need.

The Steintec Tuff Top is £282 for what i need and i can get it locally, so no delivery and i may need less as well.

So the saving over the VDW is a lot.

Comments welcome on the two systems.

[Tony McC]

The 840+ is a one-part polymeric resin mortar and, as good as it is, I would not use it for a driveway. If it was a resin mortar I wanted, I'd go with 850 rather than 840+, as the 850 is a far superior, damned-tough two-part resin mortar suitable for vehicular traffic.

The TuffTop is a cement-based mortar, so completely different and although still applied as a slurry, the clean-up time is far, far greater and there is a HUGE requirement for absolute cleanliness. Having said that, it is possibly the best of all the cement-based proprietary jointing mortars. I have a page in development about Tuff Top - I'm just waiting to get the video and photography finished, hopefully in the nest month or so.

Good resin mortars will always be more expensive than good cement mortars, but that has to be offset against the labour cost, and the need to hire-in a specialist belt cleaner machine to get the best from the cement-based slurries.

If we assume, for the sake of example, a 50m² sett driveway, that could be jointed by one operative using a good resin slurry in about an hour. The pavement can be trafficked in 48-72 hrs.

For a similar driveway jointed with a cement slurry, the actual jointing will take about an hour, but the cleaning will take at least another hour, possibly two, and, in an ideal world, traffic should be kept off it for at least 10 days.

So, while resin costs more, they save money on labour and plant. Cements are cheaper, but require more effort plus that handy little cleaning machine. Only you can work out what works best for you economically.

[marsaday]

Thanks for the feedback Tony.

Because this is for my own drive and so commercial needs do not need to be met, i am happy to spend a few hours cleaning off the cement.

I was planning on using a roller bucket with a sponged handle and cleaning off the cement this way. I have seen a few videos on how this is done.

This is how i was planning on tackling my straight drive. Complete the rear half first and grout up. Then wait a few days and lay a plastic sheet over this completed section and shift the remaining tonnage of sand onto this bit so i can finish the lower section down to the pavement line.

This way i also grout in 2 stages and so the clean up should be easier. The area will be divided into 2 x 16 sum areas.

You mention about the belt cleaner Tony. Do you think this is totally needed in my case or could i just get away with more elbow work with the sponge. Saving money is my aim over saving time.

[lutonlagerlout]

50m2 sett driveway in an hour Gaffer!!!
knocking up and cleaning off included
give me his number ,we will be millionaires :laugh:
LLL
jokes aside 2 part resin is a days work for 2 men on any project
ok they may do it in half a day ,but I dont do half days
LLL

[Tony McC]

I've seen with my own eyes 50m² of setts (80mm cubes, actually) slurry jointed with 850 in about an hour. It might have been an hour and a quarter, but it wasn't a half day!

Roller bucket and sponge for cleaning a cement slurry. No way! That's asking for a disaster. That method works on relatively smooth and very narrow jointed porcelain tiles and flags, but it is a great way to ensure extensive mortar smearing with setts or stone pavers.

[marsaday]

Ok, i am in a bind now on what to do.

Can you put in a link for the type of machine i would need to hire.

My blocks are this sandstone:
https://www.pricespaving.co.uk/product/sandown-setts/

The joint will be about 5mm. Are these a smooth block so ok for using a sponge ?

[Tony McC]

See this page on the website.

Those setts really do need a belt cleaner.

[Tony McC]

....forgot to add: the obvious answer is to lay the setts flexibly, so there is no need for a cement or resin grout.

[marsaday]

Hi Tony again.

I have thought about the cleaning and so using the tuff top is out.

So it is either going to be the expensive resin system or possibly a different brush in mortar which i have seen various people use on utube. I need to look a bit further into these ones.

So can i ask a few more questions:

1) If i go for the VDW systems which one is best for a drive with one car parked on it ?

2) Do you know if i can get a tub cheaper than the approx £80 a tub ?

3) I will be doing the whole drive myself and will probably split it into 2 sections, so doing approx 16sqm a time. Is it ok for one man to mix, fill, brush and clean it off ?

4) If i go for a more basic brush in system which is not so much of a slurry and so doesn't require the cleaning machine any idea what brand i go for ?

Thanks again, John

ps. Just checked out Resiply. This seems a similar resin product to the german one. Much much cheaper.

The nearest stockist to me is in Barnsley and they say one kit does 17.5sqm. Thats 1 x 25kg bag jointing sand mixed with the chemicals. So i need 2 kits at £50 each = £100. Seems mega cheap to me.

Any knowledge on this product ?