Hollow sounding sandstone - Sandstone and final payment

[john b56]

Hi guys , just had a large patio laid on full mortar beds with calibrated Indian sandstone, the landscaper wouldn’t use any bonding mix and some now sound hollow but solid, when it came to snagging I requested a guarantee that if the slabs lifted he’d refit them and he agreed and also a other paver he brought with him said they’d last years, but won’t give me his details or contact number, so should I insist on having the hollow sounding slabs relaid with a bond, and would I be within my rights to spread the final payment out over 3 years paying monthly as a sort of guarantee

[Tony McC]

First of all, the fact you used a 'landscaper' to lay paving rather than a paving professional worries me. I know there are good landscapers with excellent paving skills, but if a landscaper is genuinely good at paving installation, they tend to boast about it and promote themselves as paving installers rather than generalist landscapers.

Second: the refusal to use a bond bridge even though you had instructed its use could be viewed as a breach of contract. It's stupid; it's extremely short-sigfhted; and it's further evidence that this clown has no real skills.

Thridly: testament from an anonymous mate of the landscaper is worthless. You don;t know a name, or any credentials. You can't even be sure he is, as claimed, a paving installer!

Have you a written contract or any documentation regarding the work and the total cost? The presence of written documentation would determine whether or not you would be within your rights to withhold payment over a 'defects' period, but such a period would normally be 12 months, not 3 years.

Finally: hollow-sounding flags are not always an indication of poor bedding. I posted something a few months back about why you have to be careful and not simply assume a hollow sound means a n incorrect bed. I'll see if I can find it.....

I would suggest you have the contractor lift one of the hollow-sounding flags and examine the bed and the bond. If the flag comes up with little or no resistance, that would be a major concern, and if there were any serious cavities in the bed (we usually require a minimum 80% contact between flag and bed) then that, too, could be reason to require further investigation and proper remedial work.

[john b56]

Hi Tony, thanks for your reply, lots to consider, we have a quote in writing for the job but nothing about withholding payment for defects, because he’s not willing to give written assurances I think I’ll hold out longer before final payment, and consider lifting a slab,

[john b56]

Hi Tony, thanks for your reply, lots to consider, we have a quote in writing for the job but nothing about withholding payment for defects, because he’s not willing to give written assurances I think I’ll hold out longer before final payment, and consider lifting a slab,

Well one of the pavers started to move when stood on and when lifted it was obvious it hadn’t bonded with the hardcore due to no slurry, the installer had accused me and my girlfriend of foul practice because it was set in January, up to now five have become loose and four relayed by the installer using sir at my insistence, I even had to supply the Sbr myself, now the installer is saying he will honour if any more move but when shown another he’s said it was his call to relay and wouldn’t.
We are refusing final payment now and ha says if we haven’t paid by Monday 30 th he’ll start court action, I might need a independent report on the whole job, Any suggestions

[lutonlagerlout]

tony Mc does these but in the cold light of day court action is always best avoided
its your choice
LLL

[john b56]

Yeah had a chat with kalozo this morning and my options aren’t very good, got a right arrogant fella to deal with, think I’ll wait a bit, Tsb down anyway and post a bad review on Yell .com and wait for response

[john b56]

Well over a week now and no contact from landscaper, posted a one star review on yell dot.com. Looking at quote versus invoices and definatley won’t be making final payment, some of the pavers aren’t the calibrated thickness we paid for . In hindsight should of found the natural paving web sight and installers earlier , but we live and learn.

[john b56]

well i didnt pay last instsllment and now have been served papers from court for money, looking at original quote and spreadsheet for costs i estimate ive been over charged about several thousand quid for 30 square metres of patio i havnt got and £650 for pointing material that should of cost £280 along with other discrepencies, ive responded to court saying i dispute his figures and have a documented paper trail, but might need to have the m2 of paving laid verified, and cost of relaying hollow paving redone, any suggestions, ?

[Kalozo]

My advice was that if you couldn't come to an agreement with the builder then you had little choice but to pay the outstanding balance and then decide whether you wanted to take legal action. This is also what the Citizen's Advice advised as well.

Unfortunately, however wrong this may feel, you are now seen as the bad guy by not paying.

I would suggest that you take legal advice before you do anything else.

[john b56]

yeah thats correct when i was only concerned about the hollow sounding pavers, citizens advice also said dont be intimidated into paying for poor quality until your satisfied with the job and if you have a paper trail that you can produce to show youve been overcharged above the quote dont pay