Hi,
I've currently got an area outside my back door that's about 5m x 2m of blue bricks that have a nice criss-cross pattern on the top that were laid directly on the soil way back when and have been covered over in various ways by previous owners.
Many of the bricks have got great dollops of cement on them or are broken into bits so my plan is to pull them all up, sort out the good ones and then relay them in a much smaller 2.5m x 1m area.
I'm trying to use as little concrete in the garden as possible (it's quite likely we'll want to change it at some point and the less concrete to break up the better!) so the usual haunching method of edging is no-go. Instead i was planning on using Everedge (a steel edging product mentioned on the 'Block paving - alternative restraints' page here: http://www.pavingexpert.com/blockedg.htm (under the 'Steel' section).
There is a diagram in that section of what i'd like to do - does this workflow sound correct:
1 - excavate the area deep enough to accommodate the MOT, sand & bricks
2 - Lay the bricks out temporarily where i want them then fit the Everedge around them & remove the bricks
3 - back-fill up against the outside of the Everedge so that it's got some support when compacting the MOT in the next step (so that i'm left with a 2.5 x 1m pit that's lined with Everedge)
4 - add the MOT & compact it
5 - add the sand using the 'Precompacted' method
6 - add the bricks
7 - fill any gaps with fine sand & compact
Does that sound reasonable?
Using everedge when laying a brick 'patio'
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Tony McC
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What you have are commonly known as Staffordshire Blue Stable (or Diamond) Pavers. They were probably laid on cinders/ash, originally, and this has decomposed over time and now seems to be just soil.
As they are a clay paver, further complicated by them being an olde product, there will be significant variation in sizes, so no matter what width/length you achieve when 'dry laying' to set out the EverEdge, they will not achieve the same width/length when you come to actually lay them, because you will have used a narrower one where a wider one was used previously, or vice versa.
The only option is to accept that, once you have established an average width/length and set your edging accordingly, when it comes to fitting the pavers, some may need trimming to fit while others will have wider-than-ideal joints. It's all part of the charm of these pavers and nothing to fret about.
I'm not sure how you see the EverEdge supporting the pavement unless it is concreted into place. If they are simply driven into the sub-grade, they *will* move. They'll move when you add the sub-base; they'll move when you compact the pavers; they'll carry on moving over the next god -knows-how-long.When they are used as an edge restraint for, say, gravel or turf, this is of no great consequence, but with block pavements, having what the British Standard refers to "robust" edge restraints is vital.
Of course, you could bed the EverEdge into concrete and that solves the problem, but it also raises the question about just why you are using EverEdge when a simple concrete bedded edge course would do the same job, with less fuss and less cost. Further, by using the Floating Edge method, you can best accommodate those variations mentioned earlier.
Finally, when it comes to compaction of the pavers, you really *must* use a paving mat on the base of the plate compactor or you run the risk of shattering/spalling many of those beautiful blue pavers.
As they are a clay paver, further complicated by them being an olde product, there will be significant variation in sizes, so no matter what width/length you achieve when 'dry laying' to set out the EverEdge, they will not achieve the same width/length when you come to actually lay them, because you will have used a narrower one where a wider one was used previously, or vice versa.
The only option is to accept that, once you have established an average width/length and set your edging accordingly, when it comes to fitting the pavers, some may need trimming to fit while others will have wider-than-ideal joints. It's all part of the charm of these pavers and nothing to fret about.
I'm not sure how you see the EverEdge supporting the pavement unless it is concreted into place. If they are simply driven into the sub-grade, they *will* move. They'll move when you add the sub-base; they'll move when you compact the pavers; they'll carry on moving over the next god -knows-how-long.When they are used as an edge restraint for, say, gravel or turf, this is of no great consequence, but with block pavements, having what the British Standard refers to "robust" edge restraints is vital.
Of course, you could bed the EverEdge into concrete and that solves the problem, but it also raises the question about just why you are using EverEdge when a simple concrete bedded edge course would do the same job, with less fuss and less cost. Further, by using the Floating Edge method, you can best accommodate those variations mentioned earlier.
Finally, when it comes to compaction of the pavers, you really *must* use a paving mat on the base of the plate compactor or you run the risk of shattering/spalling many of those beautiful blue pavers.
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ken300
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Tony McC
Thanks, the interweb is a wonderful thing - I really appreciate the advice of someone who knows what they're talking about!
I originally intended using Everedge for two reasons:
1 - i'd like to avoid laying lots of concrete in the garden & on the page i linked to earlier it seems to suggest that it would do a pretty decent job as an edge restraint
2 - i like the look of brick paving but it looks a bit naf after a while when the central courses (laid on sand) settle and the edge courses don't leaving it dished - i had thought that using Everedge as a restraint would allow the edge courses to settle in exactly the same as the central courses.
About half of the 2.5 x 1m area where i was thinking of laying the bricks would be the only access into the back garden so it would have a fair mount of foot traffic & a few wheelbarrows passing over it. On the remainder of the brick area I had thought of putting something like a potting table or pots or something (so something that by no means needs to be sitting on bricks). I still want to keep the amount of concrete in the garden to a minimum but instead of trying to eliminate it entirely would this work instead?
Replace the 2.5 x 1m area of bricks (laid in the 'flexible' way) with a much smaller area immediately around the back gate laid 'rigidly' (so on a bed of concrete).
My thinking is that although we may want to change the rest of the garden in the future (which is why i want to keep concrete to a minimum), the area by the back gate will always need to be paved in some way so concrete there is not a problem. Below is a fag-packet sketch of what i mean, the big arrow shows where people will be walking back & forwards accross the brick area. Does this kind of thing seem more appropriate?
Am i right in assuming that
1 - as long as the concrete 'slab' that's under the bricks remains unbroken then when any settling does occur the whole area of bricks will settle as one unit?
2 - adding a sub-base under the concrete slab would help make any settling or cracking of the concrete base less likely.
3 - drainage wouldn't be a major concern for such a small area - just make sure it slopes so that run-off flows towards the garden & not the house (I'm guessing a slope of more than the 1:80 would be required because of the textured bricks is that right?).
Does that seem more plausible??
Thanks again for your help
Thanks, the interweb is a wonderful thing - I really appreciate the advice of someone who knows what they're talking about!
I originally intended using Everedge for two reasons:
1 - i'd like to avoid laying lots of concrete in the garden & on the page i linked to earlier it seems to suggest that it would do a pretty decent job as an edge restraint
2 - i like the look of brick paving but it looks a bit naf after a while when the central courses (laid on sand) settle and the edge courses don't leaving it dished - i had thought that using Everedge as a restraint would allow the edge courses to settle in exactly the same as the central courses.
About half of the 2.5 x 1m area where i was thinking of laying the bricks would be the only access into the back garden so it would have a fair mount of foot traffic & a few wheelbarrows passing over it. On the remainder of the brick area I had thought of putting something like a potting table or pots or something (so something that by no means needs to be sitting on bricks). I still want to keep the amount of concrete in the garden to a minimum but instead of trying to eliminate it entirely would this work instead?
Replace the 2.5 x 1m area of bricks (laid in the 'flexible' way) with a much smaller area immediately around the back gate laid 'rigidly' (so on a bed of concrete).
My thinking is that although we may want to change the rest of the garden in the future (which is why i want to keep concrete to a minimum), the area by the back gate will always need to be paved in some way so concrete there is not a problem. Below is a fag-packet sketch of what i mean, the big arrow shows where people will be walking back & forwards accross the brick area. Does this kind of thing seem more appropriate?
Am i right in assuming that
1 - as long as the concrete 'slab' that's under the bricks remains unbroken then when any settling does occur the whole area of bricks will settle as one unit?
2 - adding a sub-base under the concrete slab would help make any settling or cracking of the concrete base less likely.
3 - drainage wouldn't be a major concern for such a small area - just make sure it slopes so that run-off flows towards the garden & not the house (I'm guessing a slope of more than the 1:80 would be required because of the textured bricks is that right?).
Does that seem more plausible??
Thanks again for your help