Hello, I was wondering if anyone can offer any advice please. Before Christmas we had some flags layed at the front to form an additional driveway (the current tarmac drive stayed as is).
We received quotes and looked at other work and settled on a supplier. They had finished another job with the exact limestone we wanted and it looked great. Not jet black but a nice dark grey, we knew it would fade a little and that suited us. This other job hadn’t been sealed as the owner wanted it to fade from black a little.
The supplier also uses Resiply and explained the benefits in terms of time taken and being able to use it in poorer weather hence it could be done later in the year.
Hindsight is great, and after researching afterwards and finding this forum I now realise black limestone probably isn’t the best! And many people have the same issue. I also believe laying this in poor weather – lots of rain and very cold when the jointing was done, hasn’t helped.
Basically now I need to figure out the best way of restoring the colour and fixing it. It isn’t sealed due to weather so this is a job I will do in the summer (or instruct someone to do).
So the issues I have and need to fix:
1. Sand. There was a lot of sand ingrained on top of the flags, really set into the little grooves and rivets. The fitter has scrubbed by hand and jetwashed them to try and remove the excess sand. To some degree of success with the jetwash but still visible – I can live with this though. Would a steel brush damage limestone? Im assuming so.
2. The resiply has whitened and an almost glue like substance has come off it in places where the jetwash has hit it. I think/hope this could be removed by hand but worries me that the drive can never be jetwashed without the joints leaking. Fixed by sealing? Jetwash hasn’t removed this and you can see it visible in the pic. It could be that the jetwash hit it too soon after it was installed (2 weeks after). You can see on a couple of pics – very white joint and a white substance around the tile edging.
3. Colour. This is the main issue. It is very faded and washed out. A light grey. I don’t want a gloss effect but I would like to restore to a dark grey – will sealer do this or does it need colour treatment then sealing ? You can see on the photos where a plank was layed so we could reach the door. It has left a darker stain in a plank shape that the jetwash doesn’t touch. Is that normal? Ive read that they don’t stay black, but the other job we looked at was fine (same supplier, joint material etc).
4. Staining – As you can see from the photo there is a long rectangular mark that is like a faded section – where the plank was laid for us to access the house. Jetwashing hasn’t balanced this out. It’s a 2 tone grey – would sealing/colour treatment just leave a darker more prominent 2 tone or an even colour?
I’m assuming this is a combination of several factors: limestone, resiply, poor weather etc. I’m guessing at few things but really I’m looking for tips on how I can best rectify and make the most of what is there from you, the experts.
If anyone has any experience of resiply and limestone and what products are best etc then it would really be appreciated
The pavingexpert website that took me here has a great page showing the results of different products I just need to ensure these are compatible with resiply too.
Was this 'pro' install or diy?4 corner in a + is a big no no ?
Not sure but those slabs don't look thick enough for a driveway and standard of workmanship looks pour, long straight joints and messy pointing of the setts!
Don't wire brush them it will mark them
Edited By GB_Groundworks on 1455735033
Giles
Groundworks and Equestrian specialists, prestige new builds and sports pitches. High Peak, Cheshire, South Yorkshire area.
Hi, not diy, I work at a desk all day and wouldn't have a clue. All I know is it isn't really up to what I was hoping for and need to figure out what I can do to make the most of it. Restoring the colour would help. I'm not even sure what you mean by 4 corner in a +
In terms of workmanship and design etc. That's been and gone now. The person we used seems a decent bloke and we were happy with his other jobs we looked at. I think laying this in poor weather didn't help though in terms of finish
Thanks for the tip regarding the brush. Do you have any suggestions with the white residue and the plank stain? Any advice to best recover this would really be appreciated.
Appreciate what your saying. I'm not in the trade so I can't assess the installation, any reason you don't think it will last enough to warrant staining?
Regardless the installation is done. I can'tchange that now. since looking at issues with limestone I've found plenty of examples of why it isn't suitable. I didn't realise this previously obviously. Hindsight is great but I'm not in a position to start again, I just need to make the most of what I do have. We knew it would fade, the other job we looked at we were happy with the colour. I don't want jet black or wet look. The other was dark grey, the owner actually wanted it to fade lighter. We have the opposite problem though same product. For some reason it's gone down very very light and faded. Potentially that was product, weather, installation etc. I'm only speculating as I've no experience.
I wanted to update this post to hopefully provide a little clarity just in case anyone else in a similar position stumbles across it. I have let this “weather� and settle now for 6 months with the intention of sealing the stone with an enhancer/sealer when the weather is warmer.
However over the winter a few other issues have occurred, such as loose slabs, setts detached from main slabs, more white staining on the setts. The installer has been far from helpful, constantly brushing off any requests to look into this with false assurances they will take a look etc. They seem to pin any blame on hindsight and just state “it’s been a nightmare� “I won’t use this stone again� etc. Not ever pointing taking onto consideration its more of a nightmare for me as it’s me that’s out of pocket and have this as a driveway. I trusted their advice and character and seemingly got it wrong.
I now realise the stone is unsuitable for what I needed. I didn’t know at the time and didn’t research well enough. I went off the knowledge of the people who quoted us and the person we chose ultimately. Obviously they are not experienced enough with this product. We did look at other examples of their work and were happy.
This leads me to the second point in that they assured us this could be done in the later months of the year and it would have no issues. Again, this was rubbish, we shouldn’t have took his word for it and just waited until summer. They rushed and were sloppy, trying to beat the rain and the conditions.
I firmly believe that the issues I have are down to two things, the stone itself (fixed to an extent by sealing/enhancing), and the contractor who on reflection has done a poor job.
One person I would like to thank though is John Stafford @ Resiply. He has been very helpful and generous with his time, explaining any processes and potential reasons for the issues I have. The issues I have had are in no way related to the use of resiply. They seem to be down to poor installation by the contractor.
In my initial post I tried to be thorough and mention everything that had been used/done which is why I mentioned the product used. On reflection I think that is a little unfair as its now associated with what looks like a poor job. If anyone is thinking of using the product, and like me, isn’t in the trade, then I would definitely recommend giving John a call, he has been extremely helpful.
In the meantime it looks like I’m going to have to re-lay loose slabs, seal and patch up what I have left until I’m in a position I can dig the entire thing up. Lessons learnt the hard way.
Thanks for the update. You repeatedly claim the stone is unsuitable but don't explain why. From what I can see all the issues are down to poor installation. Perhaps you could clarify why you blame the stone?
Apologies, i worded that wrong. I didnt say i blame the stone for ALL of the issues i have, i said it is ONE of the reasons im unhappy with the job. Not the biggest issue but part of it. Maybe i should say the stone itself isnt what i was looking for/expecting.
I didnt expect jet black like in the pallet, and expected some fade, like a dark grey. They are very light gray now (faded within days). Complete contrast to the surrounding area/tarmac etc.
Im sure fitted correctly the stone is fine (rather than to blame), however i think to the end customer the expectations should be set as to how light these go. We had 5 quotes, we told each person that we would prefer a dark grey/black colour so that it blends with the area, plus thats what we liked. Not one person warned how much it fades. The guy that fitted it was clueless to this. I appreciate most people on here are probably trade and this is common knowledge, unfortunately wasnt to me.
The colour became less of a problem once i realised i could rectify this to an extent. Its a minor issue in comparison to the overall job. regardless of colour i would still be disapointed.
I realise your a stone supplier Steve, and im not saying this to provoke, the general feedback ive had off people who have had black indian limestone isnt positive (Trade and non trade). This clearly isnt my specialist subject, in all trades though if someone gives their requirements and what they want to achieve, then the person entrusted to do that work should be able to say the options, pro's, con's and be able to set realisitc expectations etc.
Im to blame too though, i gave them to much trust and next time will be the condescending customer quizzing on every aspect/product.
1. It fades if it's not sealed
2. It is very sensitive to acid damage
Number 1 is easy to rectify
Number 2 is fatal and acid damage will require that the stone is re-laid.
I personally think the stone gets a bad rep. Black limestone is a dolomitic limestone and there are 4 other varieties of dolomitic limestones sold in the UK. These 4 other types also react very badly to acid but dont have a bad reputation like Black Limestone does.
This leaves the fading issue to address. Firstly the fading is easily solved by sealing, and secondly the supplier should be well aware of all the issues with the stone and should be giving belt and braces advice accordingly. I'm not sure where your stone came from but the supplier should have made the person who bought it aware of the issues
Black limestone and chinese granite are the 2 stones i wont touch with a bargepole,because these 2 stones make up 90% of all the requests we get on here
as Steve correctly states if laid right and sealed it can work,but what installer needs the aggro that comes with it
slate never fades
LLL
Thanks for the feedback, out of interest do you have any personal recommendations for enhancing/sealing? Ive looked at the post on here showing test results and im considering Lithothin Stain Plus, and also been recommeneded WRS colour Enhancer. You seem to know the product though so do you recommend anything that will enhance/seal as best as i can expect to get out of it ? It may be money for nothing given the state of the install but it will be a while before i can afford to fix that.
The install isn't the best but f you think you can get a couple of seasons out of it then why not crack on and seal it.
My first choice to enhance Black Limestone would always be Dry Treat Intensifia.
Its not cheap. The cost of the Dry Treat is £50-56 per litre. You can go online and find a whole host of other products priced from £15-£30 per litre.
The technology behind Dry Treat is what makes it superior and way ahead of other products (they offer 15 year guarantees on impregantors and 5 year guarantees on topical sealant). The molecules are muhc smaller which allows Dry Treat to penetrate much deeper into the stone than other products. This means far superior performance at protecting the stone but also it lasts at least twice as long before it needs to be re-applied. So when you factor in additional labour costs for other products you can see that Dry Treat is actually cheaper. Like anything you get what you pay for.
HOWEVER
In this case as the patio may not last more than a couple of seasons, there is no point using a sealant that will last 5 years as it will probably out live the patio. I would probably go for Lithofin Stain stop +
yeah a 5 year guarantee is probably irrelevant considering the state of it. I will probably go with the Lithothin, thankyou for your advice, appreciate it
Like Steve says its a good quality stone when laid right. Limestone sett drive i did last year has lightened to a blue/grey colour which i think looks good and no tyre marks.
If you want any chance of getting a couple of seasons out of it i'd keep the motor off it.
