Need help across the pond on setts! - Need advice on laying setts and cubes

[Seattlelite]

Hi everyone! Starting a project to lay a stone patio consisting of setts, cubes and a millstone! The pattern is an inscribed circle inspired by a picture on this website of the guilloche setts in Liverpool. It consists of a (2 feet) 68cm millstone surrounded by 8 courses of light granite cubes, 1 soldier course of light setts, 5 rows of dark setts, another light soldier course, with infill cubes in the corners all surrounded by a double channel of dark setts. A disclaimer, the "cubes" and "setts" are actually half thickness 10cm X 10cm X 5cm and 10cm X 20cm X 5cm. The whole patio will be approximately 5 meter square. It is a cool pattern as in the rain (which we get a lot of) the dark and light setts have a great contrast. I will attempt to add a link to pictures.

Now for the help needed! We will be employing someone who is experienced in stonework, but given that cubes, setts and the like are not commonly used in Seattle wanted to bounce our game plan off the experts.

We are planning to lay the patio on an already existing concrete pad which is in good condition. We are proposing to place the stones into a 50mm bedding layer of 6:1 moist mix of grit sand and cement. Afterward we would propose to handpoint the stones with mortar consisting of 4 parts building sand to 1 part cement.

The process we are thinking is to cut a hole in the center of the concrete pad to lay the millstone (such that it ends up flush with the surface of the setts and cubes). We would then work radially out from that, adding the bedding layer and stones a few rows at a time. At the end of the process we would trim excess concrete from the edge of the patio and face it with stones.

Any comments on the building materials we propose to use, or our approach, would be greatly appreciated!

Here are pictures (please note we are not finished with all the infill stones as we have some cutting to do!)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/123073743@N02/13803733605/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/123073743@N02/13804117064/

[GB_Groundworks]

id be tempted to use a more course sand in your pointing mix for sett work and id be tempted to use a darker sand as possible so you get a dark grey joint should offset the white sets well.

the guilloche you refer to was done by cookie and designed by tony mc the gaffer here, i was lucky enough to see it in the flesh proper nice piece of work



Edited By GB_Groundworks on 1397377459

[Seattlelite]

Thank you for your quick response and those are great suggestions which I will follow! I had no idea that Tony and Cookie were the designers! Cool to know that! Will post photos as the work progresses.

[lutonlagerlout]

great thinking and a nice lay out
have you actually laid the patio or just Laid it out dry for now?

hand pointing would be a chore even on such a small area
i would go for a 2 part resin sweep in mortar

romex D1 or gftk vdw 850
however I dont know if either of these are available in the north west USA

cheers LLL

[Seattlelite]

It is just laid out dry right now. Thanks for the suggestion on the mortar! I would presume that would also give me some good options on using a darker color mortar such as Giles suggested (really good idea). I will check on availability. Thanks again!

[Seattlelite]

After a year hiatus, the project is underway again! Have hired a professional to get it over the finish line. The patio, which had been laid dry, is being picked up and laid in a bed of mortar. The millstone has been set in the center. Per the suggestion given previously, we are using lamp black to darken the motar mix to provide a nice contrast to the light setts. Thanks for the input and will try to post progress pics.

https://www.flickr.com/photos....-public

https://www.flickr.com/photos/123073743@N02/

[Tony McC]

The problem with using "lamp black" or even a proper mortar dye is getting the same proportions of aggregates to cements to dye in every batch. Even the slightest difference can make a really noticeable difference to the shade produced.

This is why I prefer to use pre-coloured mortar when clients insist on having a particular shade or tone to their pointing.

[Seattlelite]

Yes, the lamp black has been a bit of a challenge it would seem to handle and mix. Most of the project is covered with tarps so can't say yet whether the uniformity will be an issue. Will say though that it was a stellar suggestion to darken the mortar as it looks striking against the light setts. Would have never thought of doing that. Very excited how this is developing and appreciate all the helpful suggestions and advice and the website in general which is fabulous. Will post pics when things get uncovered.

[DNgroundworks]

What seattle like? for some reason, out of all the places id like to visit in the states, Seattle is up there on the list. I dont know why.....is there or was there a sitcom set there? Frasier i think?

Thats gonna look ace i reckon, be sure to put some pics up when its done

[Seattlelite]

Pictures are forthcoming! It is quite the mess at the moment but I am capturing all the progress for posterity and will post for all to critique. Seattle is great - tall trees, lots of rain, lots of water , great food and everyone wears pile.

[Seattlelite]

Hi everyone! Here are some photos of the finished project, finally complete! Thanks to everyone who provided useful comments, this great website, and Tony's book (proudly featured in the last photo!). I've also summarized the process that was ultimately used. Let me know if the pictures can be viewed okay. Any other thoughts or comments on the project are welcome!

Here is the finished patio:

https://www.flickr.com/photos....-public

The stones were initially laid dry and were picked up section by section. The concrete was cleaned and string lines were established to ensure a slope away from the house:

https://www.flickr.com/photos....-public

The person we hired to complete the project chose to use a high strength, type S mortar mix for both the bedding layer and the pointing material. He added a cup of lamp black per 80 pound bag. Working radially out from the center, the stones were set in 1-2 inches of mortar mix and simultaneously pointed using a tool and gloved hand.

At the end of the process, excess concrete from the old basketball court was sawn off. It turns out the basketball court was 6 inches thick and contained rebar so it was designed to last! The stones were also cleaned with acid and pressure washed to remove mortar and lamp black residue (which went everywhere). Our stone person also added a couple of flag stones and graded and reseeded the grass so there is a smooth transition to the lawn. He also removed an old concrete step at the entrance of the door and created the stone walkway that now leads to it.

Here are a couple of more pictures including the last one with Tony's really great book!

https://www.flickr.com/photos....-public

https://www.flickr.com/photos....-public



https://www.flickr.com/photos....-public

[lutonlagerlout]

seattleite that looks fab

the gaffer has cracked america! whatever next
cheers LLL