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| The Craic - Page 01 |
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Removing egg marks - 2old4this - 28 September 2002 | ||||
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Last night used hot water and a hard broom this morning there were still marks there
P.S I have heard that coke cola is good at removing stains like oil? |
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Tony McCormack - 28 September 2002 | ||||
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Egg is an organic stain, so it should break down and disappear naturally, over time. However, if you scrub it with an 'enzymatic' washing powder, summat like Persil or Ariel, that should get rid of it a bit quicker.
Coca Cola and oil? Naaaah! Oil and water do not mix. |
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Richard Malin 28 September 2002 |
I used to do machine maintenance work at a local concrete producers - Stressline - and one of their golden rules was no MILK on the yard, in canteen only, cos it apparently contains lactic acid which can burn into the castings, all top quality stuff for football grounds and motorways etc. So it makes you wonder what it does to your stomach!
Stick to beer any day. |
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Removal Of Wheel Dust - Zoe - June 5th 2001 | ||||
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Could anyone please tell me what is the best way to get the black soot which comes from the front wheels while washing, off of my new drive?
Your help is greatly needed. |
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Tony McCormack - Jun 5th 2001 | ||||
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Hi Zoe,
what is this black dust you mention? Is it from the tyres or is it just general muck? And what type of driveway is it? |
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- Zoe - June 5th 2001 | ||||
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Hi there thanks for replying so quickly.
The black dust is from the front wheel tyres I guess. I was washing my car on my newly paved drive when I noticed that it had stained them. I tried scrubbing the paving stones with a brush and soapy water but it had only made a slight difference. Can you help?...pleassssse. The stones are hexagon in shape and the driveway is just a small one in front of my home. |
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Tony McCormack - Jun 7th 2001 | ||||
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Have you tried a power washer? From what you say, I'm not sure if this is a 'dust' or whether it's scuff-marking from the tyres, in which case, the best remedy is time.
A power washer should remove a dust. There's no reason to suspect that the 'dust' is cement-based, so I can't see any advantage to using an acid-based cleaner, especially as I suspect your driveway has been paved with the concrete Agora blocks from RMC which can be adversely affected by acid cleaners. If it is just scuffing, though, a wire brush will help remove the worst of the marks and the weather will do the rest, although it might take 6 months or so. |
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Design Software - Dave - 28 Feb 2002 | ||||
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Hi, i'm doing a landscaping project for uni and wonder if you can tell me what software you use for your driveway design plans? can you get this at p.c world or have you got it designed bespoke?
thanks, |
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Tony McCormack - 28 Feb 2002 | ||||
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Hi Dave,
I use a range of programs, all bought 'off-the-shelf, but then adapted to my needs by the use of templates and libraries, built up over the 15 years or so I've been using CAD. The two CAD programs I use most of the time are TurboCAD and AutoCAD. I find Tcad is simpler and faster for small residential projects, but Acad is better suited to large complex siteworks. Tcad is very quick at simple 3D visualisations. I also use Photoshop and Picture Publisher for some illustrative work, and then the Bill of Quantities are prepared in Excel. There are bespoke systems that can do a direct take-off from ACad, but they are damned expensive to purchase and then cost a small fortune when you want some enhancements or amendments, so I stick with what I know best.
TCad costs less than 100 quid from, say, www.dabs.com or www.imsi.co.uk while ACad costs around 3 grand plus. If you're familiar with CAD and plan to use it extensively in the future, Acad may be a good investment, but if you're the typical skint student with a landlord and a kebab bar to support, Tcad is better value and a good introduction to the art. |
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Using slabs as coping stones - GeoffH - 7 Mar 2002 | ||||
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I've just had a 1m block (standard 9" blocks) boundary wall put up (protection between me and a river), but I didn't want to use the ordinary concrete coping as it doesn't look very good. I ended up using the Bradstone York Brown paving slabs (600 x 300 size) as an alternative (I got them for around £3 each). They look surprisingly good - as they have good colour variation and have a well riven effect, the effect is very natural. The wall itself underneath will be painted white which will match the white painted (stone) house.
I was a bit worried about there being no drip groove, but after recent heavyish rain and wind it doesn't seem to be much of a problem - the slight edge on the casting seems to throw the water off reasonably well. So far it's been a very succcessful experiment. Can anyone see any likely problems (apart from possible theft of the things of course!)? Comments welcome. |
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Tony McCormack - 7 Mar 2002 | ||||
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You can create a drip groove in the underside of the flags-cum-copings by scoring with an angle grinder or power saw, Geoff. The 'groove' only needs to be 3-6mm deep (less than a quarter-inch in old money) and 15-30mm from the walling or the edge of the flag, and that will prevent water running back.
Mind you, I bet it's too late now! |
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British Standards - Richard Malin - 11 Mar 2002 | ||||
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Hi Tony!
It's now early March and it's about now that us Leicestershire landscapers begin our season of hard labour. This year I would like to be a bit different in my ad. I pride myself on good, reliable, longlasting workmanship and would like to include in the ad. something like 'all paving laid to British Standard *****' or 'all work guaranteed to B.S.*****' . Only snag is I can't work it all out. Someone said that the standards must be bought, otherwise I break the law! Closest I could find on the site is BS 7533-3 : 1997. Went on the web search and found the site www.bsi-global.com. this doesn't give much more info than your page, but then again it seems to be a large company, I always thought that the British Sandards was a government thing. If it means lashing out £50 so be it, but what rights does this give the company, and more importantly, what liabilities am I up for ? PS I would rather shoot myself in the groin than let shoddy work go through! |
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Tony McCormack - 11 Mar 2002 | ||||
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The British Standard 7533 is sub-divided into 6 parts (IIRC) of which only part 3 is relevant to you, as a contractor. Now, you could lash out 50 quid and buy a copy via The Stationery Office, as it makes excellent bedtime reading for insomniacs, but there's nowt in there that you don't already know, and, to be brutal, it's not as comprehensive as the info on my site.
There's nothing to stop you from saying "All paving laid in accordance with BS 7533 Part 3" on your quotations: we have always done that in our BoQs and tenders, but it means very little to the average householder. If I were you, I'd look for a Trade Body and there's only one decent organisation for Block Pavers - Interlay. There are some major changes about to happen with Interlay, and I hope to be involved, but it is the only nationally recognised Trade Body that isn't linked to a manufacturer and an exhorbitant fee.
Work out how much it would cost you to get on Marshalls Approved List and the Top Pave TopPavers list for one year, and remember; they are basically marketing gimmicks for their own products. Personally, I've always preferred to be impartial. Have a look at the Interlay website, Richard - I reckon you'll find it worth investigating. If you want more info, email me.... . |
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Timewasters - Richard Malin - 6 Apr 2002 | ||||
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Afternoon Tony,
Having a day off today to sort out paperwork, the bills, quotes, oil leak on truck, Howard Gem won't start etc, (did I say a day off?) Anyway still annoyed about quote yesterday. Woman phoned up insisting I went round at EXACTLY 4pm, wouldn't agree to bit later, then when I did there were 3 of us landscapers there at once. I drove off in disgust. 6 mile round trip in the bloody traffic. Uurrgghhh! Thanks for that . Feel better now. |
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Tony McCormack - 6 Apr 2002 | ||||
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I had one of them, once. Went to price a driveway in Standish near Wiggin, and the woman of the house had 3 other contractors there and wanted to hold a sort of reverse auction, each of us bidding lower than the others to win the job!
Like you, I walked away in disgust and sent her a bill for my time. Nowhere in my advertising did it say 'Free Quotations', so I invoiced her for 30 quid....and she paid!! Still, the most annoying thing I can recall was a client that booked us to lay his driveway and then we heard no more for 4 weeks. I knew the husband worked on the oil rigs or mercant navy and was away quite a lot, so I didn't unduly worry, but when we rolled up on the appointed day, with a wagon load of specially-ordered Penta blocks, the mini-digger on the trailer and 4 lads in a van, they'd had the driveway paved by someone else and never bothered to tell me! I billed them for the blocks (which I had to put into storage in our yard) and one days labour, but it got mired down with the <spit> lawyers and I settled for 100 quid in the end.
I know we hear lots of tales about rogue contractors, but there's just as many rogue customers out there, who think nowt about ripping off the decent tradesmen, even if they've signed a contract. Then there's the clients who 'phone you at 11.30 at night, or on Sundays when you're supposed to be chilling! Grrrrr!! |
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CAD Design - Richard Malin - 11 May 2002 | ||||
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Hi Tony,
everything's been going smoothly now for a while, so hello and all that - just to prove I'm no fairweather friend! Did have a question actually about drainage on a long drive with fall going towards house but couldn't actually put it into words without a picture. No gulleys or anything, but think it's sorted now. Have Autocad 2000 installed on this computer but don't know the first thing about it. Will have to learn some in winter. Happy landscaping everyone ! |
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Tony McCormack - 12 May 2002 | ||||
I just assumed you were rushed off your feet with work, Richard. 
If you get stuck, you can send me sketches/diagrams etc., in Word docs, as gifs, bitmaps, CAD files or even as scans or faxes. You'll need more than one winter to get to grips with AutoCad - I've been using it for a decade and I still lose my rag with it. For landscaping and paving designs, I find that TurboCad is 10 times more efficient and far easier to learn. I save the ACad for siteworks and complex designs. If you're serious about learning ACad, it's worth seeing if your local college has evening classes - I know they do them at my daughter's college in Warrington and quite a few builders/contractors have signed up. Not all of them have lasted the distance, mind! |
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Computer design - John - 19 May 2002 | ||||
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Hi Tony
Long time no speak .Hope you are well.
What is the simplest software to produce simple drawings for clients for the works they ask me for without spending all night on the computer.
Cheers Mate |
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Tony McCormack - 20 May 2002 | ||||
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TurboCad - I use it for 75% of all my paving design work. You need to be prepared to spend a good few hours learning how to use it, but, if you've used a CAD proggy before, you'll pick it up pretty quick.
Many of the drawing used on this site were produced in TurboCAD Designer 3D which cost me around 30 quid, I think, compared to the 2,000-odd quid for AutoCAD which just gives me a headache and is only ever used as a last resort for the BIG projects! Many colleges run evening classes in CAD design. It's much easier to be taught than to learn from a book. I started using CAD about 15-17 years ago, so I've learned as the programs have progressed, but, having tried to teach one of our brightest apprentices, I can appreciate just how daunting it can be if you've no tech drawing or mathematical training. |
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Richard 20 May 2002 |
I don't know if this is any use, but I used TuboCad 2D to design my patio and raised pond.
This was a freebie program on a CD given out by one of the PC mags. Maybe it's also available to download - it won't be as flash as Tony's but is was OK for an amatuer!
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 21 May 2002 |
It's a great prog to use as a first step into the world of CAD, Richard. I started with TurboCad on a PC 10 years or so ago and found it quite intuitive, far more so than AutoCad.
I'm not sure if it's available as a free download, but it's worth having a look at the home page for TurboCad or try Tucows |
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Heavyweight Sleepers - Richard Malin - 30 May 2002 | ||||
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Hi all,
did a job recently using railway sleepers and couldn't believe the weight of them! Admittedly haven't really had that much experience with the things but last time I moved one it could be handled with only a bit of struggle. These last week had to be moved by two people. They were slightly bigger cross section too. Is it as someone suggested you get main line and then branch line sleepers? Next time I'll see them before buying. Don't want a hernia! Keep up the good work everyone. |
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Tony McCormack - 30 May 2002 | ||||
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I think it's more to do with the type of wood, Richard. Some sleepers are "pitch pine", which is relatively light, but others are a hardwood whose name escapes me...not Iroko, a....A...summat - it'll come to me later, anyway, the hardwood is much denser.
I've not heard that tale about different sleepers being use don branch and main lines - I'll ask my mate in the train fettling business and see if she's ever heard about it.
Just thinking - the heavier sleepers weren't concrete, were they, Richard? |
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Richard Malin 30 May 2002 |
THAT'S what ruined the chainsaw! | ||||
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Thinpave HRA - Big Al - 30 May 2002 | ||||
| Can anyone tell me what NYPOL TS is? We are laying 25mil thinpave and on the tickets it says it is mixed in NYPOL TS. But everybody is suffering from tight and sore throats while we are laying it. | |||||
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Tony McCormack - 31 May 2002 | ||||
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Thinpave is a polymer modified bitmac. As far as I know Nypol is one of the curing agents. Bardon Aggs will know - try contacting their rep in your area.
It really shouldn't be affecting your crew's throats, but I'll bet a couple of pre-bank holiday pints will make them feel a lot better! |
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JCB backhoe loader nightmare - Barry - 15 Jul 2002 | ||||
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I've been using a JCB Sitemaster backhoe today to rake out some tree roots in my garden. I've never used a JCB for this before, and wanted to put on a bucket with claws. And that's when the trouble started...
The buckets have some sort of spring-loaded quick-release mechansim, with only one pin to remove. How the hell do you actually get the bucket off and the new one back on?! Needless to say, the clowns who hired it to me couldn't care less and don't seem to know either...
Thanks, |
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Tony McCormack - 16 Jul 2002 | ||||
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It's called a 'Quickhitch' system and the 'clowns' really should have explained all this to you before letting you loose with a JCB!
Go back to them and demand they show you how to change buckets. It's much easier for them to show than for me to spend 30 mins trying to explain it all in writing - after all, it's them taking your money, not me! |
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Barry 16 Jul 2002 |
Thanks Tony.
I got back to them this morning and made them explain, in excruciating detail, how the mechanism works. It didn't help that the first chap I spoke to - apparently an engineer - stated that no pins needed to be removed. This was unfortunate, as the hole into which the lever goes to release the pressure on the spring can only be accessed with the safety pin removed! Be warned - the plant hire people I got this from have the largest ad in the Yellow Pages and all the little quality assurance symbols. In future, I'll find somebody local who actually cares about customer service! To cap it all off, the machine spontaneously ejected a fountain from one of the main hydraulic hoses this afternoon, where the joint hadn't been done up tightly enough. I tightened it myself with a plumber's wrench, fully aware that no help would be forthcoming from the hirer!
Cheers, |
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Tony McCormack 16 Jul 2002 |
The old method used to rely on both pins being removed, and the greasy bushes, but Quickhitch makes it much easier, and cleaner, but it still needs the driver to get off his/her ample arse and do some real work for once! 
There are bucket change systems that can be completed from the operators seat with no need to leave the cab and risk getting boots/hands dirty, but they are not normally installed on smaller backhoe excavators. However, it won't be long - they have heaters and radios and all sorts of gimmicks now. When my dad bought his first 3C back in the late 60s/early 70s, having a windscreen was considered a luxury! |
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Estimates - Richard Malin - 4 Sep 2002 | ||||
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Hi Tony & gang,
got a call on my mobile the other day, guessed it was work related as only use mobile for ads and letterheading stuff. Guy asked for me and I thought it was some canvasser as didn't remember his name, but turned out he'd had a quote in MARCH and was only just getting back. Anyway he wants job done asap now and we just happen to have cancellation space in couple of weeks. Is this a record? No worries about costing it either as he said if any prices have risen then just stick it on the bill. Umm, every last thing has doubled actually! No, just joking! Good landscaping everyone. |
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Tony McCormack - 5 Sep 2002 | ||||
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There's a bloke in my village for who I prepared a quote back in, oh it must have been 1992, and every spring since then, he's 'phoned to see if the price has been reduced! For the last 3 years, I've told him that I no longer take on any residential paving work, as I'm now disabled, but he seems to forget and 'phones again the following spring.
I also had a client in S.Warrington who wanted a large patio done in natural yorkstone paving. The price was well into 5 figures and therefore I wasn't surprised that I heard nowt. And then, a couple of years later, she 'phoned to say she'd moved to Gloucestershire, and would I be prepared to re-price and lay the same patio, more or less, at her new cottage! So, it's worth hanging on to those old quotes and calculations; you never know when you're going to get the call.
Take a handful of business cards with you on your upcoming trip, Richard - you never know who you might meet! |
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Is cash above board? - DMAC - 5 Sep 2002 | ||||
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Tony McCormack - - 5 Sep 2002 | ||||
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A discount for cash often indicates that the lovely folk at the VAT Office won't be receiving their wedge of the proceeds and that the Contractor will not be issuing any paperwork, such as receipts or guarantees.
However, it's not your responsibility to ensure the Contractor is paying their VAT bill, so, if you can get a receipt, a written guarantee and, most importantly, an enforcable contract, then you're entitled to save yourself a few bob. Personally, I'd be very wary. If they're diddling the VAT bods, what's to stop them diddling you? |
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DMAC 5 Sep 2002 |
Is their a way of finding out if this company (I would name them but i'm sure that may lead sombody into trouble) has a dodgy record with repect to best practice. The surveyor is on his way next week to measure up. Does £55.00 pounds per square metre seem like a silly or a fair price for a 70sqm drive? | ||||
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Tony McCormack 5 Sep 2002 |
55 quid per m² for a driveway of that size is actually quite reasonable, given that many PIC contractors have a minimum charge of around 3 grand.
Sadly, though, there's no register of 'approved' contractors for the PIC boyoes, but if you email me or use the Messenger facility above, I'll tell you if they've been brought to my attention in the past. |
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Pond - Alan Surrey - 13 Oct 2002 | ||||
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Hi Tony
Back for some more advice again. I've just built a pond using hollow concrete blocks. It's 3.7m x 2.3m x 1m. I am going to render it and apply G4. What mix should I use for my render? Would one 10mm coat of render be enough? Is it advisable to add any addatives to the render mix? PS Love the picture of the pergola on the site, you should see it now, finished with a bit of plant growth on it. Regards Alan |
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Tony McCormack - 13 Oct 2002 | ||||
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Hi again Alan - I was down your way last week, bringing civilisation and proper vowels to the heathens of Kent and Sussex.
I reckon you need a waterproofing additive, as well as the usual bond improvers such as a plasticiser. We never really got involved with rendered pond linings, as it was always simpler to use a butyl liner, but the last job we did, the brickie/rendererer told me that he always used two layers - a 10mm scratch coat with a bonding plasticiser and then a 6mm top coat with waterproofers added. It must work, as the client concerned has never come back to us! Send us a pic of the planted-up pergola - it will be good to see it 'matured'. |
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Alan Surrey 30 Oct 2002 |
Hi Tony
Thanks for the tips. Nice to hear you were down this way, we can always use a few extra vowels. Would be nice if you left the civilisation up there where it belongs, it's been cilivlising in bucket loads since you visited us! In fact it's been so wet, we can't even bale out the pond, let alone render it! Anyway, here's another one for you. Looked at a job yesterday, it's a driveway with existing concrete surface. We need to remove old concrete to make way for the new driveway surface. My query is that the existing concrete runs all the way in to the garage, with no break between inside and out. How should I deal with this? I don't really want to resurface inside the garage as well. |
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Tony McCormack 31 Oct 2002 |
Tell me more about this garage - pre-fab or brick-built? Is it built on the concrete slab or on its own base/footings?
I always prefer putting a saw cut at the back of the garage door, and then breaking out the concrete. The thinking behind this is that, once it's all paved in, and the garage door is shut, there's no concrete to be seen.
I'm bringing anoother bucketload of civilisation down your end of the country next month, Alan. I'll be in Hampshire, Sussex and that London Village place on 13-14-15 of November. You've been warned - buy extra waterproofs now! |
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Alan Surrey 3 Nov 2002 |
Hi Tony
Thanks for that. As far as I can recall it's a brick built, integral garage. I think it may have been added to the house at some stage. There is an inspection hole dug at the side of it, I will investigate this further on my next visit.
More civilisation on the way eh? Better get the gore-tex out!
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Alan Surrey 4 Dec 2002 |
Hi Tony
How u doin? Thanks for your visit, we've just had the most civilised November for 100 years! My query is this. I've got to build a retaining wall, 5 courses high. Only problem is the bricks are very wet. Someone told me that I shouldn't lay them wet. What's all that about?
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 4 Dec 2002 |
Wet bricks cause the mortar to 'bleed'.
Normally, when bricks are laid, the weight of the brick squeezes the mortar, but excess water is usually soaked up by the brick (assuming it's the porous type), but, when the bricks are wet, the excess water is squeezed out and it dribbles down the face of the brickwork, often carrying cement with it, so you get a lovely messy job for your efforts. Best solution is to put the bricks in the garage or under cover for a week or 10 days before you lay them. It really is much, much easier, and cleaner, if the bricks are dry. |
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New Pickaxe Handle - Jack Reed - 18 Dec 2002 | ||||
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Any tips on how to put new handle on a pickaxe? I have done half a job by dropping on the ground a few times, and it seems firm, but still 2-3" of handle sticking out past the head. I've heard the handle should be soaked, but thought that would swell the handle and make it worse, not better, and had wondered about heating the head with a blowlamp, but not sure how much I could actually warm it up that way.
By the way, I have found the site absolutely invaluable recently for laying a 2" kerb along frontage of my garden. The site is fantastic. Jack |
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Tony McCormack - 19 Dec 2002 | ||||
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The method we use is to heat the head in the firebox while we're laying tarmac, and then drop that onto the shaft, and quench it in a deep puddle or similar.
Obviously, it's not worth you taking on a tarmac job just to get access to a firebox, but you'll be relieved to learn that you can achieve as good a result by heating the head on the gas cooker (I find this is best done when Mrs Taz is out at her sister's or down the shops for an hour or so). 15 or 20 mins on the hob, then, using an old sack or similar, transfer the head onto the shaft very carefully, so that you don't burn yourself, and then bang the shaft onto a solid surface (not the kitchen floor, if you want to live!) so that it settles the head into position. Finally, you can quench it in a water butt or under the outdoor tap. This shrinks the steel head back to normal size and ensures it bites firmly onto the wooden shaft.
This method is also used to seat hammer heads onto replacement shafts, rake heads onto new steals and axe-heads onto new shafts, too. |
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Jack Reed 19 Dec 2002 |
Thanks Tony, I'll try that. Never thought of a gas stove because ours is electric, but I can try on somebody else's gas stove.
Cheers, Jack |
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Tony McCormack 20 Dec 2002 |
I'm not sure if it'd work or not on a lecky stove, Jack; I've never tried it. It'd be worth a go, though - you've nowt to lose, other than a few harsh words from your beloved.
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Backache for Xmas - Richard Malin - 24 Dec 2002 | ||||
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Hi Tony!
Merry Christmas to you and your family. Thanks for all the very useful help this year and best wishes for the future. Haven't thought up any brain teasers for you lately but am still using the site... um, oh yes I have! Why do they make some 2'6" slabs so bloody heavy? Took up a path the other week and there were about three dozen of these things at two and a half inches thick. My mate (who arrived after the hard work) called them "London slabs", is this because they use them in London or he thinks Londoners are a bit like the slabs? He he. At any rate I wouldn't like to move them everyday. Anyway the house is sold and we go to New Zealand first week in January. Wonder if they have block paving yet? Might get to do an entire sheep farm. |
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Tony McCormack - 24 Dec 2002 | ||||
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Merry Xmas, Richard, and everyone else! Let's hope 2003 is a peaceful and prosperous year for everyone.
The 2½ inchers (63mm in BS size) have always been used for public footpaths, and not just in that London Village place. We've laid them all over the north-west of England and in Yorkshire. The 3 by 2s are even bloody heavier than the two-sixes - 78kg as against 65kg. The much more flagger-friendly 50mm (2 inch) flags are reserved for flagging around private properties. Talking of backache, I worked on a site in Leyland when I was serving my time, doing the groundworks for a certain helicopter-flying national housebuilder, and there was a huge bull of a flagger doing all the driveways (the two strips of flags with a 2 foot gravel strip between sort) who would carry two 2x2s at a time, one under each arm! He was a brute of a bloke - 6'6" tall, 20 stone, built like the proverbial brick shithouse, and lived on a diet of steak and Guinness. I got backache just watching him!
Good luck in NZ - watch out for them Hobbits! There's a site for NZ pavers that regularly sends visitors to this site - see http://www.paving.co.nz for what they get up to in the Antipodes. All the best! |
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New Machinery - Nigee - 31 Dec 2002 | ||||
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I have just recieved a mailshot for a new type of bobcat/skidsteer type machine.
Its called SKIDSTER and its 1m wide, ½ ton in weight, hydraulic powered. You stand behind it and operate it via controls on top of machine. It can be used for all types of small building work due to the interchangeable accessories. There are front loading buckets, post hole diggers, trench diggers, backhoes,road brushes, concrete breakers, pallet forks, vacuum attachments for lifting flags/kerbs and a block grab for lifting a full band of block pavers. The basic cost is around £8000 new plus the accessories. Has anyone seen or used one of these machines. They sound ideal for carting Hardcore, Sand, Rubble into skips and moving blocks around. With the machine only 1m wide and ½ ton in weight its ideal to transport around and use in tight spaces. Sounds a lot better than all that shovelling and barrowing !!!! - plus a hell of a lot quicker. One question for Tony. Will the weight of the machine and 1 band of standard blocks be alright for travelling on newly laid blocks ( un-compacted) ? I think 1 band of blocks is around 275kg so this makes about 800kgs total. Will 50mm concrete blocks withstand this? What about using planks/timber sheets for spreading the weight. Look forward to the replies Nigel |
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Tony McCormack - 1 Jan 2003 | ||||
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I've seen pictures of that yoke, I think, but never seen it actually operating in the flesh. In fact, I can't even remember reading a review in Plant Managers' Journal, but I'll have a look later on, if I get a chance. At only 500kg, though, it's unlikely to be very powerful - just think how ineffective the sub 1 Tonne mini-diggers are compared to, say, a 3T machine.
I wouldn't traverse any machinery over uncompacted paving. We use a block cart to move single leaves of blocks to the laying face, but the cart we use (my dad's design) uses pneumatic wheelbarrow tyres to help spread the laod, and we always keep at least 1 metre away from the free edge. On the few jobs where we have used a Bobcat or Skidsteer to carry materials to the working face, we've always laid down decking sheets of 18mm ply for the machine to travel over, and again, we've kept at least a metre back from the free edge. Have you a picture or web-link for this "Skidster" machine? |
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Nigee 1 Jan 2003 |
Tony
Check out this web site
As for the size of the machine, I wouldnt use it for digging out with. I would be more inclined to use it for loading skips and carting stone and sand.
Look at the web site and see what you think.
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 2 Jan 2003 |
Hi again,
I had a quick flick through my burgeoning pile of old copies of PMJ, but no sign of this Skidster. I have a feeling I saw it at SED or CMP some years ago. Anyway, the website is a big help. My initial concerns are the bucket capacity and the lifting capacity. The bucket holds a max of approx 0.1m³ is about 2 good barrowloads. Handy for skip loading, I'll admit, but could be a bind when carting aggs back and forth. The lifting capacity is worrisome - 200kg is buggerall and the temptation to overload should not be overlooked. Think of it this way - 3nr 3x2 flags is too much weight for it to lift! Still, I'd give their distributor a ring and see if we could have one on trial for a week, just to see how it performs on a typical job. Most reputable companies (and I see their UK distributor is MW Plant who have a long track record of good service) are more than happy to give site trials. You don't always get a new machine, but we find these trials invaluable as we get feedback from the gangs who'll be using the kit, and not just our own thoughts and the biassed opinion of the sales bod. If you do go ahead, I'd love to hear what you think of it. All the best! |
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Clive 8Jan 2003 |
I have used them in the past when M&H Plant (now Hewden) used to hire them out. They are a good tool for rehandling, not very good at dig out. There quick on there feet and don't tire that easy (not like most nupties, running with two barrows all day). I have asked Santa for one, but he couldn't have got my note This type of kit is becoming more common and there are a lot of accessories available follow the links for similar kit
http://www.dingominidiggers.com/default.asp http://www.lewis-equipment.co.uk/skid.htm http://www.ramrodequip.com/ http://www.toro.com/professional/sws/index.html http://www.avanttecno.com/main/english.html http://www.bobcat.com/products/mtl/index.jhtml Some of these are same machine with different colours If any one has one to hire in the Leeds area or wanting to part with a used one mail me - clive AT thehandmadegarden.co.uk |
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Bodgit the builder arrives! - MikeT - 25 May 2002 | ||||
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I just had a guy spend 2 days removing a door and frame in a back porch and bricking up the hole left, (single skin) in that time he has managed to lay around 100 bricks. The job is nowhere near finished and if you follow the link to see his work (look carefully at the right side one brick in from the return) you will see how strong the wall is going to be when he's finished!! No I dont think he will be finishing it, in fact the only reason he will be back is to collect the level that he didnt seem to use and so I can pay him for the materials he used. Even that I dont feel too happy about.
The same guy was supposed to be laying a few yards of concrete and 140 slabs as well as some french drains for me, i'm sort of glad I gave him this job first to see what his work was like, the rest would have been even more costly to put right afterwards!!
Why cant I seem to get a reasonable job done for a fair price? It seems that the good guys must be charging the earth in these times of plenty as the other quotes I had were more than double this guys. Looks like some put in really high quotes to cherry pick and I just get more and more unlucky.
There....now I feel better already! MikeT. |
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Tony McCormack - 26 May 2002 | ||||
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Bloody hell, Mike - give this guy's horse a bucket of oats and send him packing. I wouldn't even pay him for the materials - they're unusable!!
My 11 year old daughter is capable of better brickwork than that - seriously!! |
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John 26 May 2002 |
I do paving Mike and I find trying to get a good brickie to build my garden walls a nightmare.They are like rocking horse s.....
How anyone can put their name to that wall is awful. I am sorry for your misfortune. Tony, I suggest my 3yr old nephew mixes the mortar and your 11 yr old daughter builds the wall to help Mike out. John |
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MikeT 26 May 2002 |
Well I just spent from 8am to 7pm non stop on the walls to get it sort of right so the double glazed door can be slotted into the hole hopefully on Monday pm.
If it looks too green then I will have to wait another day. Not only did the guy have too many cut bricks in the course, myself and a brickies mate managed to do the same job without cutting anywhere near the amount of bricks, but we had to "bend" the wall in order to get back in line.
I would have liked to just pull it all down and start again but my helper said that would be too much for us to finish in a day....he was right too. I phoned the cowboy and got his answerphone, I explained very clearly that I didnt want to see him again apart from to collect what tools he has here and that he should send me a bill for what he thought the bad job was worth. He phoned me 10mins later to ask if he should turn up on Monday to help with fitting the door!!
I set his horse free
Cheers |
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MikeT 26 May 2002 |
I just looked at my own picture and had to go look at the wall again to be sure, the camera has bent the photo and the wall isnt really that shape.
I will be finding someone to render it and finish with durite chippings though so its the same as the rest of the house, I just cant be reminded of that drama every time I pass all those cut bricks and in line mortar joints. While I remember, cowboy used washing up liquid in his muck, I thought this left the mix more pliable for longer but my brickies mate says it weakens the mix? Mike. |
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Tony McCormack 26 May 2002 |
A dash of the old wash up liquid is fine for non-critical jobs, such as pointing a few flags on your own patio, but for brick walls I'd use a properly approved plasticiser.
Wash-up can weaken the mix, if its over-used, but at very low concentrations, any reduction in strength should be off-set by the reduced amount of gauging water required to make the mix workable. Who's going to do your flagging now, Mike? |
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MikeT 27 May 2002 |
Hi Tony,
As to who's doing the flags and drains, I havnt a clue at the moment. The other quotes I got were just too high for me to do the job (£4000+) for 120 flags and 10x15ft of concrete plus the french drain of 7mtrs. They were to break up all the old concrete too but the years and weather have done lots for them already. I have now already ordered and paid for 140 flags as the cowboy would have needed them tomorrow. I found a retired groundworker who will work for £6/hr if I tell him what wants doing, but the idea was that I passed all that over to someone else to worry about.
I guess I will get a skip in and set him to work removing all the old concrete and take it from there.
Perhaps I should just buy a caravan...... |
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Tony McCormack 27 May 2002 |
6 quid an hour for a groundworker is a bargain - see how he does for a day and take it from there. Surely, he can't be any worse than the last eejit! | ||||
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MikeT 31 May 2002 |
Hi Tony,
I just had the bill for oats and materials for that "wall"!
To supply 250 face bricks
NO labour or transport charges Total price £159:56 I just did a quick cost using B&Q prices and its £63 using single brick prices. So he's getting £50/day for oats without saying he's charging for it. Grrrrr........and I still have a grotty bottom half of the wall too.
Oh well. |
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Mike's next headache - MikeT - 1 Jun 2002 | ||||
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Well Tony, having collected 150 slabs in my poor old car, 18 at a time, i'm bl**dy knackered.
The double glazing guy was supposed to arrive this morning to fit a door to the rear porch with the disaster walls, he managed to "forget" and stayed home to watch the footie I guess. He was also to renew all the facia boarding round another rear extension at the same time so it was done before the yard got dug up for the flags and drains.
I had a guy round last evening to quote for the paving and drains and he's not able to get the quote to me till After the holiday either, though by the sounds of it he may be well expensive as he was talking of type one sub base and 75mm sharp sand/cement at 5:1 and then went on to say that he wouldnt be able to get them level as they are riven. These are B&Q molded so they hardly have any height changes in them. Looking more like me and the groundworker doing the job every day. oh well.....Maybe I should use your design service to give me written instructions on how to get the levels right as atm everything seems to slope towards the house.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack - 2 Jun 2002 | ||||
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The patio is sloping towards the house? Is that what you mean, Mike? There's ways and means of dealing with this problem, but it's much better if you can fiddle the levels so that the fall is AWAY from the house and towards a gully or similar.
It's worth hanging on for your man to quote. Give him a call on Tuesday and ask if he's done it yet - if he's not, he'll probably do it as nr 1 job on Weds morning. How does your grouyndworker pal feel about laying the flags? B&Q riven are a doddle to lay - they're only 450x450, so there's no great weight to them, no pfaffing about with random layours, and, as you say, the riven-surface isn't all that irregular, so it's easy to keep a check on levels. |
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MikeT 2 Jun 2002 |
Dont think I better go ringing the contractor for a price on Tuesday Tony, its still a public holiday.
This thread may be of interest to others who may just miss it here so feel free to rename and move it if you feel it needs it. Its not just the fact that the levels all seem to run towards the house that is causing me concern, if you have a look here
Now this was built before I bought the house some 25yrs ago and I have a sneeky feeling that it was built as a sunroom (needing no planning permission) and as the original house builders had set some 4" deep concrete bays to the rear of the house, the guy built straight on top of this, then raised the level inside the room by adding more concrete. The yard as you can see has a slope towards the extension on the wall where the hose is and then there is also a slope from the vent pipe in the corner to the gully at the front of the extension. From the garden retaining wall in the forground is a fall towards the mid ground with no gully available so it puddles. There is a combined storm/sewer manhole just in front of the stepladder, there is just 150mm to dpc on the wall of the main house and slightly more at the gully corner of the extension. The area shown in this picture
I see B&Q are doing some black plastic 1mtr drain channels now for £6 each? and thought 2 of those (1 each end) of the french drain may be worthwile. My concern with the 4" concrete under the extension was that if I cut it back in the yard to close to both the house and extension walls so I can lay slabs, I may weaken whatever foundations the extension has. At the moment it seems to me that the whole of the visible slab could be supporting it and by cutting it away I may cause problems that I wont know how to fix.
My alternative to the above was to clean up the cut that was made to lay the original drain to the extension and re-lay more concrete to the left in the pic to replace the damaged stuff. This of course does nothing for the falls which would remain unsatisfactory.
Mike. |
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Tony McCormack 3 Jun 2002 |
I'm not 100% sure I've followed everything, but, I think that the 'extension' is built on a slab that was cast at existing paving level, and you are thereby limited as to what is and what isn't possible. Is that more or less correct?
Anyway, assuming it is, then the simplest solution I can see is to make a saw cut 300mm from the brickwork and remove the concrete from the yard, but leave the 300mm strip in place, so that you are not interfering with the 'foundations' in any way. Install a simple yard gully centrally in the yard and connect it to the existing drainage system. Make sure the gully is set low enough for it to collect surface water from the entire yard. Start laying your paving against the left-in-place concrete strip, but lay it 15-20mm higher than the concrete and slope it towards the new gully. Once the paving is done, the 300mm strip can be covered with a granolithic screed and floated to finish flush with the paving. Yes - I know you'll not be exactly 150mm below dpc, but it really isn't the end of the world being 130mm below dpc in such a small area. The grano will need to be bonded to the ex concrete with PVA or SBR or summat, and you could add a colour dye to make it more interesting, and then trowel mark it to give it the appearance of block pavers or small element flags.
The advantage is that you now know all the patio area is being properly draiuned, and that water will not lodge against the house brickwork.
How does that sound? I know you'll appreciate all the extra digging. |
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MikeT 3 Jun 2002 |
Sounds fine Tony, what you doing next weekend??
Yes you did get the gist of what I was trying to say 100%.
I better order another skip I may well post some in progress pic links too. Cheers again. Mike. |
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Tony McCormack 3 Jun 2002 |
Next weekend? Err, I'm sure I'll find summat to do!
Post links to your pics, Mike - I like to see jobs as they progress, as do many others, judging from the feedback I get. |
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MikeT 9 Jun 2002 |
Well Tony, the double glazers have been here again!
The rear porch now has a door fitted but not yet trimmed out and the facia boarding on the top of "that" wall is also almost finished. They were too busy ripping the facia off my extension and replacing it with nice shiney new stuff on Saturday to quite have enough time to finish the rear porch. They will be back Monday. Question if I may, whats the correct term for the small area of mortar used between ground level and the DPC around a house, in my case its around 20mm thick and 150mm tall with an angled top to it. Would it be called haunching?
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 9 Jun 2002 |
It's just a "below dpc render", Mike. I'm surprised there is one on your property. as it looked relatively modern in the photos you sent, whereas the render jobby is usually found only on inter-war houses.
I wonder if a really crappy brick was used below dpc when your house was originally built and the render was applied at some later date to hide the mess? |
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MikeT 9 Jun 2002 |
The front of the house doesnt have this render Tony, its just the back and I guess that the cowboy who originally built the extension and rear porch did as you say cover a grotty job with render then saw fit to continue the render on the middle (original wall) as well to make it all match up I will find out soon as when kicked some of it sounds like its not attached too well so it will all be coming off and be replaced when the patio is done.
Thanks again |
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Tony McCormack 9 Jun 2002 |
I'm always deeply suspicious of render, especially on relatively modern properties - what is it hiding?
During the 60s-70s-80s render and that bloody awful stone cladding were used to cover up a multitude of sins, ranging from poor pointing to crumbling brickwork. Let us know what you find behind yours. Good luck! |
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MikeT 22 Jun 2002 |
Just a brief update Tony Hiding under that below dpc rendering was....concrete! The guy built the extension with a 6" raft of concrete on top of the existing 4" yard slabs, then bricked up from there. The render was to hide the concrete which would have shown instead of brick.
I am still working on the rear porch!!
The yard flagging and drainage job is due to start on July 1st, wish me luck
Cheers.
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Tony McCormack 23 Jun 2002 |
Your home sounds like one of those from the telly programs, Mike - the more you uncover, the worse it gets! I'm surprised your surveyor didn't spot any of these "little problems" when you bought the house - or did you opt for the simple Valuation Survey rather than the full Structural Survey?
July's a great month for flagging - you sweat like a pig, but boy! Does that beer taste good at the end of a shift!
Looking forward to the next installment. |
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MikeT 23 Jun 2002 |
Tony said.... I'm surprised your surveyor didn't spot any of these "little problems" when you bought the house - or did you opt for the simple Valuation Survey rather than the full Structural Survey?
The year was 1976, we were in a 2 bed terraced house and home prices were shooting upwards much faster than my wages were, we wanted a detached house but were not really ready finance wise to go for it. We had only 2yrs previously bought the terraced one.
Hope your weekend is less energetic than mine is Mike. |
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Tony McCormack 23 Jun 2002 |
I've had to rewire the entire bloody 'phone system - I'd rather lay 100m² of flags than fiddle about with pesky little wires in inaccessible corners.
And then the neighbour came around to complain about the noise of me hammering and drilling - I hadn't realised it was just gone midnight!!
Now, I'm off to sit out in the garden with a couple of cans of Dr. Boddingtons' Milk of Amnesia. |
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MikeT 4 Jul 2002 |
Well Tony as promised, here is a "brief" (ha, you should be so lucky<G> update on the flagging and french drainage that was due to start on July 1st.
I am working nights atm so was quite looking forward to watching the Kango break up all my concrete.
The spec'd Terram has turned into Fibretex and the 2 gully traps have turned into a run of linear drains (extra) across the yard as he doesnt think he can get all the surface water to one point easily. Things are not looking too good....again!
I just pegged and site leveled myself now they have gone home to check the fall on the existing 110mm drain to see what exact fall it has, as it needs to be lower down to enable the french drain to connect through it and still have some use, unless water can flow uphill.
The idea was to give the job to someone and site back and watch the tennis while they did all the thinking! oh well.... Friday update, its raining again and I have had to get my submersible pump out to clear the water as the drains not connected any more.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 5 Jul 2002 |
You seemed to be plagued with eejits around your patch, Mike - first the slanting brickie, and now the scared-of-rain patio gang! 
As for the amount of work they've achieved, my 12 year old daughter can manage more than that in a day! 20 quid per m for slotted pipe is, to use a trade term, a bloody rip off. The 80mm flexible would have been more than adequate. Ask the contractor for a flow rate calculation that justifies the use of 110mm dia rigid pipe, and when they can't produce one, then you offer to pay for the 80mm pipe.
I can't see any reason whatsoever why a linear drain is the only viable option and that point gullies would be unworkable.....unless, of course, the contractor can't think straight and lacks the basic skills to create the correct falls in the subsequent paving. And for a 4.5m run, you could get away with 50mm of fall no problem at all. 7" (175mm) is way over the top! Have they turned up at all today, or has the rain scared them off? |
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MikeT 5 Jul 2002 |
Yes Tony I got the 1" in 100" fall figure from your site, so realise that will be ok and have suggested that to them.
They did turn up today and worked for ¾hr removing 14x 2ft sq slabs then left because of the rain. Perhaps I should just dig a big pit and sit my float controlled pump in it and use that for draining the soil instead of the french drains
More updates and pics as they are required. I'm trying to see how many hits we can get this thread up to before the jobs finished!!
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 5 Jul 2002 |
From what you tell me, I'd dig a big pit and push those lazy buggers into it! | ||||
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MikeT 7 Jul 2002 |
Me again Tony
One thing the contractor asked me the other day was would I like him to compact the sub base. I am unsure of that to say as from this pic
you can see that all to the left of the string line is virgin clay (oh and the flat and vertical slabs have now been moved away) and to the right of the string is a very mixed bag of clay, old rubble and leftovers from the extension work.
So if he compacts the virgin clay wont that just make it even harder for the french drain to collect anything from the lawn side? If he doesnt will the slabs sink?
I think if he does compact, it must be done before the french drain is dug or the trench sides will fold in wont they?
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 8 Jul 2002 |
The usual procedure would be to excavate for the land drain, install it, backfill and cover, then place sub-base for paving compact sub-base, lay paving.
The sub-base must be compacted, otherwise, as you surmised, the paving will sink, and any consolidation really only affects the top 150mm or so beneath the wacker, so the clay won't be overly affected. Besides, virgin clay is more or less as compact as it can be.
Another wet week in prospect! |
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MikeT 8 Jul 2002 |
Oh well, its 11:30am Monday and no sign of the pavers yet. No its not raining either!
I just got some prices on 110mm underground pipe from my local BM. Plain 6mtr lengths at £9:99 110mm perferated at £34:00 per 6mtr so that puts a hole in his £60 for 3mtrs of perf and £30 for plain doesnt it. I'm off to work at 2pm and have just floor tiled a loo so at least i'm working
Cheers Tony |
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Tony McCormack 9 Jul 2002 |
I've got a price of 110mm perforated uPVC at 15.92 per 6m length, plus the inevitable VAT, and that's a Trade price which I don't expect you to be able to match, but it does give some idea of how much you're being robbed!
Did they turn up at all? |
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MikeT 9 Jul 2002 |
I did get an email from him later in the afternoon to say he was sick and sorry, but he would be there today (Tuesday)....well its raining here and has done all night so its Mike man the pump and invisible pavers day again I guess.
The swimming pool idea is getting closer to reality all the time.
Cheers Tony |
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Tony McCormack 9 Jul 2002 |
Too sick to work but not sick enough to play at the computer, eh?
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MikeT 9 Jul 2002 |
Having some free time before setting off to work and after having just grouted the floor tiles I laid yesterday I took a lump hammer and chisel to the area round the manhole cover to make sure it can be saved for re-use as the paver had already warned me that he may have to replace it "as they break when you try and release them from the surrounding concrete"
Well I didnt break it, although the rendering inside the manhole will now need replacing The vibration of me using my hammer was just too much for it, I would need to rebench anyway after changing the old pitch fibre pipe that comes in from my yard drains so no great loss. It will give me a chance to try out this "grano" mix that you recommend. Err...no they didnt turn up at all.
Cheers.
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Tony McCormack 10 Jul 2002 |
Oh, you'll like the grano. It's damned handy stuff for small concrete repairs.
Any sign of the itinerant paving gang? I'm off to do some survey work in Wales for a couple of days - if I see them on my travels, I'll send them over to you. |
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MikeT 10 Jul 2002 |
Well I got myself all ready to tell them to sling their hook when they did eventually turn up....then at 9:30 they did arrive with extra labour and a promise of no extra charges and a quick finish, so I backed off a bit an just told him that they would have to do well now to make a very angry customer happy.
He's still saying he can't using trammel bars get all the surface water to end up at one point in the center of the yard, but I have quoted you as saying its the way to do it. He's changing the 110mm slotted (very overpriced pipe) to 80mm flexy stuff and hopefully the job will proceed ok now.
I noticed water entering my sump pump hole from a direction UNDER my property, not from up the garden as I would have expected, so I investigated the perimiter of my home and found my next door neighbour who owns a koi carp shop was filtering water into a 40gal butt right next to my garage. He had a constant flow into it and the overflow was to the shingle drive. I think it most likely that this water has found its way under my garage/extension and thats what is appearing in the sump pump hole......more grief.
More pics and story as required Have a nice time in Wales.
Cheers |
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MikeT 12 Jul 2002 |
Well Tony, they were here all day yesterday and removed the old black pitch pipe and laid new as per this pic.
The low back trap with oblong hopper is too close to the extension wall as the wall has yet to be re-rendered below dpc.
Hmmm....manhole to sweep tee seems to be 1:200 and tee to lowback against the extension seems dead level. The fall on the yard bottle trap is ok at 1:100.
Cheers.
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Tony McCormack 12 Jul 2002 |
I didn't think falls were that tight - I assumed you had plenty of fall. Have they sorted it?
I can't wait to see the benching. |
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MikeT 12 Jul 2002 |
Yes Tony, the guy jumped up and down a bit and threw tools about when I showed him the dead level pipe, then he dug out the cement and adjusted it for fall.
The reason they seem short of fall is that they have to try and keep the pipework and traps as low as possible so the french drain is not on the surface! as its due to connect through the inlet on the middle of the yard gully/trap. I checked with Hepworth technical today and their paved area gully 4A22A can use a 300mm extension peice 4A17E to raise its grid further from the pipe in/outlets so I will pick one up tomorrow and save the fiasco of having a central yard gully thats 2 inches below the flags just waiting to trip the kids up.
Had trouble locating the "grano", our town builders merchants didnt know of it. Found dust to 6mm in TP and BC in another town though. Is dust only of use? seems one sold that too. Its all stop till Monday now, so I have time to get on with the toilet plumbing instead! Hope you had a nice time in Wales?
Cheers.
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MikeT 13 Jul 2002 |
Well I have been busy again this morning and have purchased the extension peice for that low drain.
Before:
After:
I also performed surgery on the oblong hopper that was tucked right against the wall. Before:
After:
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 13 Jul 2002 |
Grano is sometimes known as Grano Dust, or Granolithic Aggregate. It should be readily available in most decent BMs, as it is used throughout the country, even though most of it is sourced in Northern England. It's usually 6mm to dust size.
It seems you are doing more work than your contractor, Mike! Still, it's sort of starting to come together, at last!
Wales - left me knackered for a couple of days, but it's done now until next month, hopefully. |
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MikeT 16 Jul 2002 |
2 days into the week and we have some more done Tony. They got the top soil and clay removed yesterday for the area that will have 2 slab steps around 3.1mtr in length leading up to the lawn.
These pics show the story.
Tomorrow they intend to lay some cement mix over the Fibertex to strengthen the area a bit before starting to lay 5:1 mix of sharp sand and cement as a base for the flags. Wish me luck! Mike. |
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Tony McCormack 17 Jul 2002 |
Any sign of them finishing before the frosts come, Mike?
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MikeT 17 Jul 2002 |
I have to tell you Tony, I have some slabs down!!
Cheers.
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Tony McCormack 18 Jul 2002 |
Looking good!!
What are you going to use for pointing/jointing? Plain mortar? |
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MikeT 18 Jul 2002 |
Glad you dont think there is anything wrong so far Tony
Here are some of todays efforts.
I like the straight lines, though I guess thats what you would expect a pro to lay.
Hand pointing would take me for ever, though I dont know how long it would take him, I suggest it would still be too long a task. I have or will have soon 220plus including edge cuts 450x450mm slabs laid here so thats an awful lot of pointing! Were you going to suggest something for the pointing? maybe a colour change from plain old cement?
Oh btw, I went to get my "Grano" yesterday and some guy had beat me to it and had all the stock (8 bags) including the one reserved for me.
Thanks for the help on this so far
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 18 Jul 2002 |
A wet grout wouldn't really affect these flags, as long as the lads doing it knew what the craic was, and it was a scorcher of a day. Otherwise, I reckon it's hand pointing with a wet mortar, but I have a sneaking feeling that they will opt for dry brush-in.
These light coloured flags would look good pointed with a dark mortar - a brown or black would be ideal, or, for something less stark, a buff or marigold. If they do indeed opt for dry brush-in, then you're going to get whatever colour comes from the sand. Get them to do a discreet corner as a test panel before making your final decision. Grano dust will be ok for what you're planning to do with it. It dries a very very light grey-blue, almost white, but you can colour it. Again, Buff or Marigoild would look good with those flags. BTW, what flags are they? I can see they are 600x450s, but who's the manufacturer? |
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MikeT 18 Jul 2002 |
They are 450x450 Tony and are el cheapo's from B&Q called Derbyshire Natural £98 for a pallet of 72. They are quite light in colour, so much so my camera shuts down the light when I take pics of them!
I will have a play this weekend with colours and even mix a test up using the grano, as I dont think he will be pointing till next week.
Cheers. |
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MikeT 19 Jul 2002 |
Well Tony, how wrong can I be.
The guy has finished all the slab laying in the main areas, and now has the cuts to deal with round the edges and around drains and manhole. He intends coming tomorrow (Saturday) to work till thats done and Sunday to build the steps to the lawn and from the house to the patio. He insists that a near dry mix of sand and cement is best for jointing (you should have had a bet, you would have won easy ) and gave everything a jolly good watering before he left today.
He wasnt keen on any thoughts of colouring the jointing and I didnt push it as I would like to see this job completed asap now. What I did like was the effect water had on the finished paving, it turned my cheap near white pavers into very expensive looking wet look ones!
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 20 Jul 2002 |
A sealant will give you a permanent wet-look, Mike. In fact, some sealers are better thought of as Colour Enhancers for that type of flag.
The Derbyshire Riven are a sideline from the commercial arm of the Bradstone Empire. Cheap'n'cheerful, but watch out for the aggregate becoming exposed in a couple of years - a good sealant can help reduce the risk of that happening, as well as cutting down on cleaning/power-washing. It's lashed it down here this afternoon. I was at Tatton Show with Mrs Taz and we both got bloody soaked. I think it might be heading your way, but I hope it doesn't delay your estimated time of completion.
So: when's the Barbie? |
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MikeT 20 Jul 2002 |
I should have known....He didnt turn up at all today (saturday) so I guess Sunday will be church day for him now to show remorse for not working ;-) I was quite keen on the sealant idea to get a wet look on these cheapo flags till I saw the price!!
£44 for 5ltr of Resiblock superior never mind the price of their best stuff!
Jewsons do one for £15/5ltr but I bet that doesnt give a wet look and as your pages suggest its pro rata on price.
At least I have all the ground work and drains done now and if I want to go for a real expensive flag in future most of the hard work is done now too. Looks like a thunder storm here real soon, time to test and drains.
Cheers. |
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MikeT 9 Jun 2002 |
These flags Tony....yes I know they are cheap and cheerfull but they should be fit for the purpose intended for a while at least.
I have around 6 out of the 10 I bought first as a test to see how they looked when laid in a pattern that have some very strange areas on them.
Its almost as if the coating has worn away already, they didnt get walked on while I left them laid out as a test, so that marking is just the result of the weather.
Although its going to be 100% better than the broken concrete I had as a yard before all this work started, I'm already wishing I had spent more on the paving after seeing how these are going, though looking about I would have had to spend a great deal more to get away from this method of flag production. Another oh dear....... And no they didnt turn up today either!
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 21 Jul 2002 |
My Grandad always used to say, "Buy cheap:Buy twice" and it is certainly true with paving. You generally does gets what you pays for, which is the case with these flags of yours. Compare and contrast with the Bradstone/Charcon "Peak Riven' which is what they are mimicking.
They will wear, and quite rapidly compared to 'quality' products, and the aggregate (limestone usually) becomes exposed, but they don't become 'ugly'. They'll do for a few years, but be prepared for them to be invaded by mosses and lichens.
Anyway - the sealant. I know it's a dear do, but it's money well spent, especially with such vulnerable flags. I know Resiblock is relatively expensive, but it is the Rolls Royce of the Sealant World. You might find the HG Hagesan products more amenable - I had a web address for them in my hand on Friday and now I can't for the life of me remember where I wrote it down! As a colour enhancer, the Thomsons Patio Seal (it duz worrit sez on the tin) is adequate, but what you won't find on the Tin is the warning that once you've used it on your patio, certain other sealants won't adhere to it, so you have to use the same stuff to re-seal in later years. This week isn't too promising, weather-wise, so your itinerant contractor might be awol again. How much is left to do? A couple of days? Any chance of the Grand Opening Barbie next weekend? |
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MikeT 21 Jul 2002 |
The best I could find with google Tony was this website for HG Hagesan.
I got a phone number in Essex for them so will ring them tomorrow to see what they offer. I have "played" today with Thompsons water seal for brickwork and also tried waterproof pva at 2:1 with water on a spare flag to see what the effect was. I also mixed up some grano, just to see what colour it came out when dry.
As to the amount of work left to do....they arrive by 10am (some days) and lunch is usually 12:15 to 2:30pm then home at 4-5pm and if you give them tea they stop and go sit in the van and drink it, so thats another 30mins lost...
Well I recon I should order an extra large turkey this year! Yes 2 "good" days might see the back broken but I doubt I will see a "good" day for a while. Pity they didnt show this weekend as it was fine both days.
I'm on night shift again this next week then on my hols for the 2 weeks after that so maybe....just maybe
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 22 Jul 2002 |
I hope you're paying them a price and not on daywork, Mike!
I can't understand that sort of approach to a job. When I was contracting, I preferred to get in, get the job done, get paid and bugger off to the next job. Dragging the job out for day after day only breeds earache from the client, and bad feeling from the neighbours. Bad weather can't be helped, but, at this time of year, when the weather was fine, we would work until dusk - better to make a few bob in the warm days of summer so that, when the rain and snow come after xmas, the bank account can carry you to take a few days off in front of the fire. HG gunk is sold by some BMs. The "Golvpolish" is the one normally recommended for flags, but their site seems to suggest "Impregnator". I'd be interested to hear what they suggest when you call them. |
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MikeT 22 Jul 2002 |
These guys are on a fixed price Tony and must be well over budget on this one by now.
I contacted HG and Glovpolish is not for outside use as it will become like an ice rink when it rains. They recommend Impregnator which is £14:63/ltr...gulp! I read its polymer in white spirit base. Jewsons do a sealer/enhancer 5ltr/£15:83 which I will try and get a sample of to see what it does, have you used this one at all? We are down to 1 man today, cutting in around the outsides, the other is on the next job. 3hrs for lunch and so on still... Must order that turkey.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 23 Jul 2002 |
I knew there was some catch about the Golvpolish/Impregnator stuff, but it's not a product I've used very often - well, twice, to be be honest - so I can never remember which is which.
I'm not familiar with the Jewson Jollop, but I should imagine it's manufactured by one of the usual suspects and badged with Jewson's name. the PICS Brand sealant is popular with the PIC boyoes, but I'm not sure how well it performs on flags. However, seeing as it's acrylic and made for coloured concrete, I can't foresee a problem. I think they do 25 litre cans, which should be about right for your job, enough to do 2 coats and a re-coat in 12-18 months time, I reckon. It's around 100 quid, though - see PIC Links page for PICS address.
It seems you are being treated as a 'Hospital' job, Mike. It might be better to look at Easter Eggs rather than Turkey, at this rate! |
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MikeT 24 Jul 2002 |
Well Tony, its Wednesday and its almost completed.
The steps (2 steps up by 8 flags wide) should be done by Fri night and he's coming back next week to brush in the joints again.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 24 Jul 2002 |
I know every contractor has their own way of working, but I'd have built the steps before laying the rest of the patio. There's a lot of 'wet work' involving mortar and concrete when building those steps, so, to me, it seems more logical to get that over and done before the paving goes down, just to avoid the risk of splashing or staining.
I wouldn't cancel the Turkey just yet - a lot can happen between now and next week! How many weeks is this now? 4 weeks? For a 4 day job? |
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MikeT 24 Jul 2002 |
Tony, you have to know your levels to enable you to build the steps first and I guess this guy wasnt sure what was going to happen till he had the flags down
The job was due to start on July 1st and did start July 2nd, so we are well into week 4 now!
I'm a bit concerned about the dry mortar mix jointing, as it looks like rain and there is a fair bit of what looks like cement dust hanging on the riven edges where they swept off, just hope I dont end up with grey highlighted riven flags.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 24 Jul 2002 |
Your hypothesis about the reason for the steps being constructed last would be funny, if it weren't probably true! That's the worrying thing.
You'll not get grey staining if there's cement left on the surface while it rains - you'll get glaring white. And the odds on dry jointing correcting rocking flags are about the same as my teenage soap-dodging son having a shower this month - more or less non-existent! I can guarantee now that, if the flags are rocking before the jointing is placed, they will still be rocking a week later. |
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MikeT 24 Jul 2002 |
So Tony, whats the trick to getting all the cement dust off the flags then? I tried soft broom sweeping myself at 45 deg and it seems to pick more out of the joints than it removes from the flag tops.
Once I noticed rockers 2 days after the damp 5:1 sharp sand/cement screed was laid I couldnt really figure how they were going to fix themselves as the pointing is really not man enough to stop that is it.
maybe not one for your acredited list of contractors then?.... Yes i'm sure we are both correct about the reason for the late steps too. This is playing havock with my sleep patterns as I'm on nights this week and also on watch during the day, if you know what I mean.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 24 Jul 2002 |
The best way to avoid cement dust on the paving is not to put it on there in the first place!
Soft brush, over and over and over and over again. Helps if it's a breezy day, but not if the missus has got the washing out on the line! It's one of those jobs you just have to be patient with, I'm afraid. As for the rockers, a wet grout would fix them, possibly, but they really should be tightened up on a new bed before the jointing is done. I reckon you're getting a bit like me, Mike - starting to see paving in your sleep. Scarey, innit? What do you do at night, anyway? |
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MikeT 25 Jul 2002 |
I just got home from work, I'm an electrical engineer in a food factory on rotating shifts btw.
As to seeing flags in my sleep, I'm just not getting any this week. Too busy during the day keeping my eyes on the pavers.
It didnt rain and the pointing dust is still that, dust.
I can be sure now of being woken by loud noises at around 9:30am cant I!
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 25 Jul 2002 |
I'm not sure if there's any rain forecast over the next 36 hours or so, and unless the sand:cement mix can draw up sufficient moisture from the bedding, then it's not going to set at all.
Even if it does, dry jointing in this manner doesn't create a hard mortar, but a weak joint filler that is rapidly eroded and/or colonised by vegetation - unless it is 'struck' while still damp, This compresses the jointing mix, forcing it into the joint and 'polishes' the surface, making it harder and more resistant to invasion.
Sweet dreams |
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MikeT 25 Jul 2002 |
Well Tony, the guy didnt even turn up today, he was supposed to be here with a mixer to start the steps.
Mobile switched off and nobody home!
I have had to sweep, sweep and resweep the flags as the cement dust is blowing out of the joints now with help from a little wind. Not a chance of it setting from damp below, though it looks like we will get some rain tonight.
Oh well....
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 25 Jul 2002 |
2 points - you've not paid this clown 'up front' have you? And is he going to give you a written, insurance-backed guarantee? | ||||
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MikeT 25 Jul 2002 |
I gave him £300 half way throught he job Tony as a "sweetner" when he had done much more than thats worth of work as he didnt have an account at the BM that were to supply the Fibertex and land drainage.
The rest he will get once I am satisfied that hes properly finished the job. All his work is according to his paperwork "fully insured and guaranteed" though in the past I have had little faith in these claims by others and generally end up doing whatever needs redemial work myself as its just too much hassle trying to get the firms to do it. Just dont ask me about double glazing guarantee's!
Are you sure you wouldnt like to "pop down for a weekend of fun, sun, sea, sand, and cement??
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 26 Jul 2002 |
Maybe next time I'm on a cultural mission darn sarff I'll pop in and take you up on that offer, Mike.
Any sign of 'em today? The sun's cracking the flags up here in sunny Warrington, despite all the gloomy predictions for a rain-lashed Commnwealth Games. Ideal weather for wet-grouting! |
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MikeT 26 Jul 2002 |
Yep, They arrived today with feeble excuses about van trouble, he brought me 18 Frittenden slabs as a way of compensation. They have slightly more even bottoms to make forming the steps easier.
All he says re the rockers is "wait and see at the end of the job" so I'm waiting with bated breath! The poly sheet came out to stop the cement staining of the slabs from step building, I see it didnt work already.
Now the van has packed up and he's run out of building sand, so I guess thats today done for..... Exciting isnt it.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 26 Jul 2002 |
Is there any overhang on that half-a-step outside the patio door? It looks as though the flag tread is flush with the brick riser.
If the van's packed up, does that mean he'll be coming on his horse tomorrow? Or is that it now until Monday...ish? |
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MikeT 26 Jul 2002 |
The flag is flush with the brick Tony, the edge of even the Fritenden flags was poor so he elected to flush finish it and also the ones on the steps to the lawn.
Will that be a problem? There is a gap behind for the dpc clearance and they do slope very slightly forward to shed water.
That leaves the top step shy of the lawn level by around 40-50mm so I think I may just go get some round topped lawn edging tomorrow first thing instead of sleeping so he can set them in the back between the top flag and the grass, then again maybe not..... I dont know quite what to put in there at the moment. I must go have a measure
I had to jump start the van today before he could go! Oh and he broke a slab this evening trying to level a rocker with a broom handle! I dont have a lot of hope do I.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 27 Jul 2002 |
There should be an overhang to prevent water dripping down the face of the brickwork. Have a look at the cross-section drawings on the Steps page and you'll see what I mean.
I can't understand why the steps have been built on top of the flags - why not just build them on a concrete footing. It doesn't make sense to lay good flags that have cost money, and then bury them underneath a step |
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MikeT 27 Jul 2002 |
There would have been an overhang Tony, had the edge of the flags been suitable, They were fairly sharp and rough on the bottom and the taper out from top to bottom on the sides did nothing but exagerate this.
He had already built the half step out of the patio doors with no overhang before I got to see it and gave what I considered reasonable cause for doing so, (the edges of the pressed flags not being suitably formed to overhang).
As to the other lawn steps.
I had already seen and digested your steps pages but your nice round nosed treads and my cheap sharp slabs dont compare, I hope there is no reason that water running down the brickwork will cause me a problem? As to building the steps on the existing just laid row of flags, I did question this when he went to start them and he said although he could lift them as they were all laid on a base of 5:1 sand/cement, he wouldnt unless I insisted as they gave him a good base to work from and anyway he had supplied the Frittenden step slabs FOC anyway so it wasnt costing me anything.
I think I will when the weather gets back to normal (wet) peel back the turf and remove some soil beneth to get the turf to butt to the step edge rather than use a concrete lawn edging product. There is only around 25-40mm height difference to the lawn. The wife seems to like it anyway, so there is hope.... He's back on Monday to bench the manhole and generally tidy anything that needs it, like removing 2 tons of sand from my driveway, then i'm holding back final payment for 2 weeks to see these flags bedded properly.
Cheers. |
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MikeT 27 Jul 2002 |
1027845161|I thought a couple of before and after pics were in order, so here they are.
I guess this thread is almost done now, I hope its been of some help to others reading, if only to tell them how NOT to go about some things
Whats the odds on the guy turning up Monday to finish off Tony?
I'm off to the beach.... |
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Tony McCormack 28 Jul 2002 |
Odds on Monday? Depends on the weather, of course!
It's so muggy here tonight, I'm glad I'm not working tomorrow. Wish I could go to the beach! |
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MikeT 29 Jul 2002 |
The wildlife seems to like the flags anyway Tony.
This morning I rescued a frog from the slabs that looked like he was half cooked, put him in a plant pot base full of not too cool water and 4hrs later he was revived. I just looked out again and found a common lizard sunning himself on them, got a few pics of him for the kids to see when they get back from a day at the beach.
Patio gang have arrived and are removing 2 ton of sharp sand from the driveway now.
They have agreed that I pay most but not all the bill today and the rest in 2 weeks as long as everything is satisfactory.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 29 Jul 2002 |
The weather forecast for Wednesday is bloody awful - if there's going to be any problems with ponding or settlement, that drop of rain should make it more noticeable.
We don't get many lizards up here in t'north, other than the feckless git my eldest daughter is dating! |
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MikeT 30 Jul 2002 |
Just when you think its all over.....
The guy came back last night to sprinkle water over the joints to get them to set before the thunder storms arrive (not here yet btw) and to stop the new cement round the central gully from drying too quickly and cracking up as it did the first time he tried it, he had an oats sack over the top of it. Well the sack had red dye in it....yep you guessed it. I lifted the sack this morning to see how it was doing and bugger me pink flags!!
I just spent an hour with a nail brush and soapy water on the 5 affected flags and its less pink than it was Bloody hot here already.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 30 Jul 2002 |
White spirit won't work 100%. It might disperse the dye a little, but, as the metallic oxides used in concrete dyes aren't soluble in White Spirit, it's not going to remove them completely.
What was it Slowhand Clapton used to sing? "If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all"?
Looks like you'll be swapping flags, Mike, unless the impending deluge manages to wash all that dye clear. It was lashing it down on the <spit> Thelwall Viaduct an hour ago when we were parked there. |
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MikeT 30 Jul 2002 |
I tested some Vanish carpet foam shampoo on a spare slab and that was ok so I used that and a scrubbing brush. I just have a faint pink hue to them now
I can live with that better than I could live with them ripping up 5 flags and trying to seat 5 others. The rain got here just now, 2 claps of thunder and a 5 min shower and it was all over....for now. The sun shines on the riteous! (sp?)
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 31 Jul 2002 |
That pink hue might disappear over the next month or so, if you're lucky.
How's the jointing held up in the drizzle? |
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MikeT 31 Jul 2002 |
The pink is hardly noticable now Tony, what is noticable is the cleanness of the slabs I scrubbed to get rid of it!
They will blend in too given time I guess. The jointing seems to be ok with the exception of a few real rockers and they are easily seen by the flacked out pointing around them. I have a chart with all the original loose slabs on it and tomorrow if its dry enough I will check which ones still need attention. He is due back next week to repack the joints as they have all lost height, also to refit the rocking ones.
I now need a bricky to build the walls round the patio to get rid of these vertical slabs or even to build a single brick wall in front of the vertical slabs and then fit coping slabs to hide the vertical slabs.
No puddles so far but we have not had any real rain either. Bright sunshine and 30 deg here now with very high humidity.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 31 Jul 2002 |
We're right back where we started now, Mike....looking for a bloody brickie! I don't suppose you'll be asking The Golden Trowel to come back for another go, will you?
If you can find any Kid's crayons (there's always a few down the back of the couch) they're very handy for marking flags that require further attention. |
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MikeT 31 Jul 2002 |
Perhaps I could find some pink ones too, then have fun cleaning that off after he's sorted them Tony!
I thought I would leave pound coins on the rockers as an incentive!
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 31 Jul 2002 |
Leave pound coins??? And double his profits??? You flash sod!!!
We normally use a big yellow marker crayon at work. Back when our Tom was about 3, I was inspecting a re-laid flag footpath on the main road through Birkdale, just before the Open Golf thingy was due, and I was going along putting a cross on any flags that I wasn't satisfied with. I'd left Tom by the van while I walked the 400m or so along the path, and marked maybe 20 flags.
When I got back to the van, Tom has been mimicking Daddy and has created a pavement mural of me, and the van, and a "Digger", and a crane, and his mummy, all over the bright new flags! We had to rub it all down with broken flags to 'wear away' the crayon before the Golf Wallahs and Council Numpties came and moaned at us! |
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And now the pointing! - Mike T - 6 Aug 2002 | ||||
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|Well Tony, the idea that holding back a final payment would make the bugger return to sort the rocking flags out and repoint the others didnt work. He hasnt been round at all!
I let the girls loose on the patio with their bikes and they can find the rockers no problem. I just had a poke with a blunt instrument at the pointing and although it looks ok its like a knife through butter, some parts has a thin skin of what appears sound mortar but even thats soft as sh** underneath. The sharp sand screed is hard enough but I guess that the week or more that the dry sand/cement mix laid in between the flags before it saw water was just too long. The only options I can see now are a) rake it ALL out and apply another dry mix (after sorting the rockers) or b) a wet mix and point it all in by hand...thats a bloody lot of pointing!! If as I suspect he's none too keen on returning even for his outstanding cash, whats the best way to sort the rockers out? As I said the base screed seems to have gone off very well, do I have to attack that with a bolster to lower it before adding more mix to level the rockers or can I get a very wet mix of sharp sand/cement like a slurry and use that to sort them out? Oh btw we had a couple of real downpours and all the water went somewhere, though with all these rockers and bad pointing i'm not sure that the drains were 100% responsible for shifting the water. Cheers. Mike. |
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Tony McCormack - 6 Aug 2002 | ||||
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I was only thinking about your earlier this afternoon, Mike. It's been a few days since I heard owt from your part of the world, so I thought you were out sunning yerself on your shiny new patio!
It does sound as though the curse of MikeT has struck again and the Patio Master has done a runner - glad to see the back of the pair of us, I'll bet! So, you're going to have to sort the rockers yourself. The easiest way is to rake out the shite dry mix all around the suspect flags and bin it. Use a soft brush or an air hose or anything you can find to get as much of that crap out from the joint as is possible. Next, make up a very wet mix of Building Sand and cement at 3 parts sand to 1 part cement, with a dash of plasticiser (wash-up liquid, if you must). Best to make this in a 10 litre black placky bucket, and use a big stick to stir the sand and cement together. Get it to the consistency of a decent pea'n'ham soup, and then transfer half a bucket of the gloop to an old watering can. This is just the job to pour the wet grout into the joints, but it might need a bit of encouragement, so keep agitating it with a stick or a cane. Once the offending joints are full, stand on the flag and force it to rock, so that it draws in the wet grout beneath the flag. You may need to top up the joints, depending on how much grout disappears beneath the flags.
Clean up any spillage and then keep off the flags for at least 36 hours, giving the grout a chance to solidify. It doesn't always work 100%, but it will sort out the majority of the rockers, and then, next week, I can talk you through Chapter 2. I told you dry grouting on riven flags was a waste of time! |
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Mike 8 Aug 2002 |
Thanks for the tips Tony, I will give this guy till the weekend to show up as I really dont want to do his job for him AND have him arrive a few days after demanding his last payment.
I could rake out the fine stuff with a vac cleaner, I have an old one I use for all sorts of cleanup's. Would it not be easier for me to lift the rockers one at a time and pour some of the "soup" into the base area, then lower the flag onto it? and should I pre water the flags the day before to be sure the base below the flags is damp to aid bonding? or am I just making work for myself? I'm not sure if I am trying here to get the flags to just not rock or if I am trying to bond them to the screeded base with the "soup"?
You sure you dont want to come visit the sarf of England?
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 8 Aug 2002 |
Don't lift out the rockers. There's a chance the wet grout will tighten them up as it finds all the voids and low spots in the bedding. If, after the grouting has cured, one or two flags are still moving, that's the time to lift the offending units, chip out the base and re-seat them on fresh mortar, but, for now, stick with the wet grout.
No need to dampen down the flags beforehand, unless we've had a freak sunny spell that's really parched the ground. You'd be surprised just how moist and cool it can be underneath a concrete flag, even in the height of summer! |
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Mike 22 Aug 2002 |
Just a quick note Tony to let you know I havnt been away on my holidays and forgotten to post here on my progress....there hasnt been any!
Its been so bl**dy hot here that I thought i'd wait for the weather to cool a bit before putting my soup under the rockers. Thats my excuse anyway. I sideways shifted on to several other jobs that needed my attention round here, like trying to finally finish that toilet/porch job and the garage door frame is rotting so needs replacing, what do I find but no lintel above the head. Another bout of head scratching on how to remove/replace the head without getting 5 courses of 9" brickwork on my head while doing it!!
Just think, i'd be lost for something to do if I were to move house!
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 22 Aug 2002 |
Excuses, excuses - scorching weather is the ideal weather for wet grouting! Get it done this weekend, or it'll be September and the rain will be back. | ||||
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Mike 25 Aug 2002 |
OK I consider myself told off Tony! Here we are cutting out the old grouting, we have been at it for bloody hours and so far have 28 rockers.
The only problem with using the drill wasnt obvious till later when all the dust was hoovered up, the vibration from the drill allowed dust under the slabs so some are now higher than they used to be, looks like I may have to lift those anyway to clean out under before using the "soup". Anyway, we have both had enough "fun" for today so we will make up a broth tomorrow morning before we go out for the day.....we hope!
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 27 Aug 2002 |
20p per flag! I'll come out of disability-enforced retirement for that sort of money!!
A Nangle Grinder is a great yoke for getting rid of the old mortar (if it can be called that ) from the joints, but it spews the effluvia everywhere, so best not to do it when next door has their washing on the line. Have you done the 'broth' now? |
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Mike 27 Aug 2002 |
Tony, I mixed up enough "soup" to do 6 flags and used real plasticiser! It really didnt want to go under to stop the rocking but managed to go just about everywhere else.
I am tempted to make a thin alloy hook tool to just fractionally lift the rocking corner to let more get under on the next ones. For every flag I did I spent about 30mins clearing the excess from around it. The gaps are only 10mm max and pouring was quite hit and miss as the soup would stop/start even in the plastic jug I was using, so parts of the gaps would overfill and others not fill enough. I was very worried about leaving any residue on the flags to dry in case I got grotty marks that were hard to remove later.
I chickened out after 6 and left them to go off (36hr) to see if they do stop rocking before going on to do the rest as my new soup will no doubt be a lot harder to remove than the old dry mix was if I do need to do them again
I have left the soup quite low down in the gaps as I dont yet know what part "B" of your plan was to sort the rest of the soft joints out?
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 27 Aug 2002 |
Wash in the 'soup' with water from a hose or watering can. thatb will carry the sands and cements deep under the loose flags, and enough will set to hold the flags in place.
What's happening when you pour the 'soup' into the joints is that the thirsty flags suck out the excess water leaving a thick mass of sand and cement that just will not flow unless you introduce more water.
Try it and see! |
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Mike 28 Aug 2002 |
Well Tony, the first few flags I "souped" on Monday are now dry and testing them I dont find any rocking....yet, but the kids have to bike test them later when I finish the others
I just couldnt bring myself to apply a hose or water can to my nice white slabs on top of a soup, so tried watering the slabs first, then pouring a watered down soup in. That seems to work better. I have now done around 20 rockers with another 8 or so to do. I am still waiting for your part 2 of the plan, how to deal with all the other joints which still have this thin crust of set cement covering a mainly sand joint where the guy put dry mix in
Had these slabs been smooth surfaced I could see myself doing a wet mix brushed all over and off, but with these riven ones every crack and crevis seems to grab a lump of cement for later!! What McCormack magic have you in store for me next I wonder
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 28 Aug 2002 |
It's not going to be much to your liking, I reckon. It basically involves cutting out any iffy jointing with the Nangle Grinder and then pouring in more 'soup', but not needing to force it beneath the flags, and keeping it a bit thicker so it can be 'struck' with a pointing bar, or bit of copper pipe.
It's either that or traditional trowel pointing - which is the less objectionable? |
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Mike 29 Aug 2002 |
Hmmm....I knew you were going to say that Tony
Thats around 337metres of pointing and raking out!! I guess I should have kept more money back from him, on the other hand he wouldnt have gone for hand pointing however much I held back and this way I only have myself to blame if its sub standard.
I had an idea As for the thicker grouting mix, I have yet to try that one, but I can attach the plunger to a mastic gun, so I see no reason why that shouldnt work too.
I bet you have fallen off your chair laughing at this (careful of that back!) but I would like to try and make my life just a little easier I made myself a couple of tools of differing widths for pointing bars, so at my rate of work I should be finished in time for the turkey.
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 25 Aug 2002 |
Your pointing gun might just work. Have a look at Easipoint's website - they have a similar system, using a modified mortar. The problem is keeping the mortar flowing and not separating in sands and cements, or clogging up the nozzle.
If we do get anorther hot day or two, give serious thought to an all-over wet grout - it will be a lot easier than you think, and certailnly easier than 337 lin metres of pointing. |
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Mike 31 Aug 2002 |
My mastic gun worked a treat on the "soup" and I now have no rockers, the kids will be bike testing this statement tomorrow. I got no blockages and although the mix ran out quicker when the gun was full, by getting the soft spout right down to the bottom of the joint, a small lift would control the flow of soup extruded.
Interestingly, the sand I used turned yellow when set and hard, whereas what I dug out ftom the dry fill joints looked like pure grey cement dust with hardly a trace of sand in it.
So 300mtrs 10mm wide by 20mm deep, a quick estimate of kilos of sand at 3:1 ? Tony
I will get whatever extra you think I need to add to the 2 bags I have here already and mix them all together to be sure they end up the same colour, then rebag for use as required.
BTW all the nasty things I have wished on the "patio specialist" while doing his job seem to have worked, he popped back this evening to see how I was getting on!
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 2 Sep 2002 |
300m x 0.01m x 0.02m = 0.06m3 @ 1900kg/m³ = 114kg
Allowing for your 3:1 ratio, plus the wastage, I'd guess 120-150kg of sand should be plenty.
And it was a great weekend in Devon, seeing old friends and getting 3 new fuchsias for my collection. Best of all, though, was a total absence of traffic at the M5/M6 interchange in Birmingham on the way home - hard to believe, I know, but absolutely true!! |
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Mike 10 Sep 2002 |
Nowhere near finished Tony, I work shifts and they alternate weekly so with last week being nights (my worst shift) I always feel like death warmed up during the day as its hard to get to sleep and not a lot gets done that week.
I have so many other jobs around the home to try and get done as well that its difficult to get time to do more than an hour or two's work on this one project. That was one of the main reasons for getting a contractor in to do it.......so I didnt have to! All the rockers are now done, its just, ha! how can I say "just" cutting out all the rest of the joints and hand pointing them. What I have found is that clearing joints makes rockers of ones that appeared stable before, so I'm going to have to do this in stages. The double glazers are here again this week and one window is fronting the patio so they with a very very large window of 8mm toughened may just give me some more unstable slabs to fix too. I have a piece of A4 here with a list of work 3/4 of the way down it, most of which requires attention before winter and its been almost impossible to find tradesmen to even give prices never mind do jobs here in the sarf all summer. The cheapness of loans etc has caused an explosion in building work.
I can see me eating turkey while pointing yet
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 10 Sep 2002 |
I've heard about this explosion in 'Home Improvements' down there in the styx around London Village. Someone emailed me asking to verify a price they'd been quoted for some flagging work, and it almost caused me to cast aside my crutches and take up the maul once again!
It's like the late 80s all over again - folk have more money than sense!
Hey! Maybe you could make a better living repairing patios??? No shift work, and all winter in the ale house. It's worth thinking about! |
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Mike 1 Oct 2002 |
I have been doing some "wet" well damp anyway pointing each day Tony so its getting there albeit a bit slow. Another 25mtr and I will have done all behind the patio doors to the steps. Just that real big bit left then!!
I have been cutting out every other straight run so as not to disturb and cause any more loose slabs, then going back to do the alternates the next day. Lastly once they are set cutting out the short slab length bits and doing them.
I was unsure how long cement should be kept/used once opened and as I am not too quick at this I contacted Blue circle on the chance that there is a hard and fast rule on usage, they tell me that all the time you can powder any lumps or crust easily, it should be ok to use, but that it will weaken with age. He couldnt though tell me any life span when it shouldnt be used, just "maybe a few weeks"
Oh well its not like its £50 a bag
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 1 Oct 2002 |
A piece of 12mm copper pipe, bent into a sort of ....
______ ______/ .....shape make a great pointing bar.
We always try to use up cement within a month of purchase, but then, we would normally expect to get through 10 tonnes or so per week. I reckon your bag should be ok for another fortnight or so. |
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Mike 2 Oct 2002 |
Tony, My pointing bar is a peice of 10mm stainless round that I turned down to 8mm at one end and then bent to the correct shape.
Oh and its raining just enough here today to stop work.
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 2 Oct 2002 |
That's far too posh for use on a building site, Mike!
Raining! You're gradually turning into a contractor - next thing you know, the crack of yer arse will be showing and you'll be able to make that 'Tsk' sound perfectly! |
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Mike 9 Oct 2002 |
Hi Tony, Only 26 lin metres to go and its done!
If the weather stays fine I should be finished by Saturday!
Posts are starting to get less as winter drifts in so I just thought I would help fill the void so to speak
Cheers |
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Tony McCormack 9 Oct 2002 |
I'm glad it's quitening down a bit, Mike. It gives me more time to get the new pages completed and introduce some new features to the site for next season.
So - did you get it done? It was bloody awful here on Saturday, definitely not pointing weather! |
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Mike 13 Oct 2002 |
I wish! Its been foul here, so I am looking at the last 3 rows of 5mtrs plus the bits in between left to do still.
They are all close to the drain so I dare not risk it with the forcast the way it is for the next few days.
So it was you who brought us the bad weather then eh!
Hope you had a nice time anyway.
Cheers. |
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Mike 21 Oct 2002 |
I am fighting the weather and the flu in my quest to finish this pointing Tony, just 5.86mtrs to go now and its done. I am very pleased with the result and thank you for bearing with me
Then I have to figure what to do round the edges, I dont seem to be having any luck with builders/bricklayers/plasterers to replace the below DPC rendering atm as there is no money in it for them. They are all so snowed under with big money making jobs, its hard even to get one to turn up to view the job.
I am considering using "on edge" cut flags of some sort to finish the job off with now. Because of the falls none of the walls to be done have uniform heights to be covered or I could maybe use something else, but it has to be something I can cut the bottom edge off to suit the height to dpc level.
Where cowboy jim finished the flags there is a gap all round to the walls and he filled this with sharp sand/cement which is now going very green.
This is the area that needs sorting for below dpc cover.
so I have to redo those in the spring. I will move them forward so there is a raindrip too then as although my idea that the kids would hook the bike pedals under the front edge and break something still holds true, they are chipping the corners off the bricks now instead!
Must order the turkey...
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 21 Oct 2002 |
You could use quarry tiles or a flag strip, whichever you think looks best. If you go for the quarry tile, use M-Fix or a similar cement-based waterproof adhesive to glue them to the existing wall. You could use M-Fix for the flag strip option, if you wanted, or use a decent Class II mortar with added waterproofer.
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Mike 21 Oct 2002 |
The reason for not taking the flags up to the edge of the extension was the footing question.
Even so, it does look pretty awful and has cracked across it where the thickness went from thin on the yard slab to thick on made up mixture. maybe if I use quarry tiles I can put some on the granno to hide it, though the dpc height there is just 6" so thats why we didnt do anything else before. They even managed to bugger a perfectly smooth granno strip by yard brushing it all while it was still damp, by accident of course. I count myself lucky there are no hoof prints in it really!
Some thin welsh slate might hide that without adding too much to the height
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 21 Oct 2002 |
If you go with the quarry tile option for the walls, then I'd use the same to cover that iffy grano. Don't fret too much if you creep up a bit and have only, say, 125mm of clearance - it's not the end of the world, and I won't tell anyone if you don't!
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Mike 30 Oct 2002 |
Just a quick note Tony, to let you know the pointing is FINISHED!!!!!!!
I have not done the quarry tile dpc bit yet as the storm gave me some roofing work to worry about so now I can see if cowboys can ride horses up tiles and tie the horse to my aerials while they work.
My server is acting up atm like yours was and the pics I left links for in this thread may not always work, but I guess from the amount of reads that everyone has seen them by now!
Cheers. |
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Tony McCormack 31 Oct 2002 |
I told you it'd be finished before christmas!
What next (after the roof)? The driveway?? |
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