Although you can get away with ridiculously tight falls with a well-laid block driveway, if you get a few mil of settlement in 2 or 3 years time, it can result in what looks like a big pond, but is actually only a rizla-thin sheen of water. Still, the property owners are on the 'phone and other passers-by have spotted your "lake".

When we come up against this sort of tight fall, I always err on the side of caution and bang in an extra gully or a length of linear drain, and then set out the falls to direct the water to these new drain points, along with the existing gullies, the public footpath, garden etc.

It may put your overall job price up by a few quid, but I always found the better clients were more than happy to pay for an extra gully if it meant they had a well-drained drive that would give them many years of trouble free service. I'd rather do that than take the risk of having to be called back to install a gully 12 months later, often at your own expense.

So, try to keep falls to 1:80 minimum, and if that's not possible, look to install additional drainage so that the min fall can be achieved.

this sort of edging is very popular in the US, but there's only one real 'seller' over here, and that's 'Keyform' from Marshalls.

This "Keyform" utilises a pre-formed plastic restraining strip that is, literally, nailed to the ground with the aid of 300mm steel pins. Each restraining strip is 4m in length, and can be cut to size as required. Longer runs can be created by linking together adjacent sections with a special joining member that slots into each piece.

I'm actually in the process of building a page describing it's use and Marshalls have allowed me to feature pics of their product, but I'm still waiting for confirmation from the US companies that I can show their products to give a fuller picture of the whole range. Maybe next week! :)

I've also heard from a new UK seller, Hauraton Kaskade and they have just launched a rigid and a flexible edging restraint onto the market, selling it under the name of "Linefix" Edgings. The flexible strip is used for curves, the rigid for straights. You can email them for more info via

Anyway, why aren't they popular in the UK? There's aquite a few reasons, but the main one is cost. They are relatively expensive compared to concrete bed and haunch, and can take longer to set up correctly. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with them, but I do appreciate their use in specific conditions, especially areas subject to heavy freeze-thaw cycles.

This is an excerpt from the page under construction...

The great advantage of this type of edge restraining system is that it allows soil to come right up to the edge of the pavement. However, as can be seen from the cross-section drawing above, this is only a relatively thin covering of soil, as the sub-base should extend beyond the edge of the pavement. In fact, if the sub-base is extended to 200mm beyond the pavement edge, this is considerably more spread than the typical 100mm width of haunching concrete

While Keyform and similar products undoubtedly have their uses, they do not have much of a market in the UK for a number of reasons...
- we are not often affected by adverse freeze-thaw cycles
- establishing the pre-formed strips at the correct level can be time-consuming
- creating arcs and curves is complicated
- not suitable for use with kerbed edges
- concrete is relatively cheap and simple
- lack of product promotion within the trade

Follow up the UK leads, if you wish, but 'phone your local BM and get them to quote you a price before you commit. If you can hang on a week or so, the new page will be up by then.

...later...

The page is now uploaded and live, Jason....

http://www.pavingexpert.com/blockedg.htm

...I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Alan Parkes Gardencare
Ruskington, Sleaford, Lincs.
NG34 9BT
Tel: 01526 833565

Bishops Landscaping
Breadsall, Derby,
DE21 4GB
Tel: 01332 834325

Duo Paving
Meacham, Swadlingcote
DE12 7JG
Tel: 01530 272041

Newberry Construction Ltd.
Cosby, Leics.
LE9 1RS
Tel: 01455 208081

TECNi:BLOCK
Kingsway Industrial Park
Derby
DE22 3FP
Tel: 01332 293977

2nds are always a huge gamble. We had a client in Ormskirk some years ago who bought 3 full loads of oversize blocks from Charcon/Camas and the couple of quid per metre he saved on the blocks was swallowed up by our labour cost, as we spent hours trying to get them aligned, trying to get rid of 5-10mm wide joints, and farting about the variation in thickness.

Properly laid, CBPs should last a good 20 years - is it really worth skimping and trying to save a few quid by using reject blocks? After our experience in Ormskirk, we won't take on any work involving rejects, seconds, overbakes or any other block/brick that's not perfect. Life's too short!

The ArmPak jointing sand is not that bad, I find. The colour disappears after a few weeks, once the crud settles over the surface, and at least it is a properly graded sand, unlike some. The colour of jointing sands (and bedding sands) varies throughout the country. The ArmPak doesn't get used Darn Sarff, where the sands tend to be much more yellow.

Personally, I like the washed Mersey Grits - a nice neutral silvery-buff colour that doesn't stain the blocks and it drains really well.

The 'Block Extracting Tools' are brilliant, if you have 65 quid to spare and will be using them regularly, but two trowels is just as good - in fact, they're even better on established paving!

Let us know how you get on - the frost will make them a bugger to loosen!

8 metres wide and about 20 metres long.
How do I go about screeding that area?

Do I lift all existing pavers and then mix these in with new-bought ones, or buy all-new pavers?

A good tip is to power-wash the old blocks before you lift them. This makes sure they're in tip-top condition when they come to be relaid, and the weathering will be even less noticeable. Do the power-washing on the OLD drive - you shouldn't power-wash new block paving until it's sealed itself or been coated with a proprietary sealant or joint stabilising compound.

And yes: it does have to fall away from the house. You will need some form of drainage at the low point, which could be on the outer edge or perhaps even a length of linear drain along the centre line.

Mixing Older Blocks
Colours change over time as dyes are refined or manufacturers switch from one supplier to another, but, if you have a multi-colour block to begin with, then any diff between old and new will be unnoticeable to the untrained eye. However, if you have a monotone block, that could be more of a problem.

Size-wise, there should be no problem as the vast majority of concrete block paving in the UK is made to a standard size and are interchangeable with units from other manufacturers (in the case of the standard rectangular 200x100 blocks, that is).

Linear Drain
Two runs of linear drain is overkill. The drainage capacity for these systems is phenomenol, limited only by the diameter of the outfall pipe, and you could easily drain your 160m² with just a single one metre length!

However, having just one unit of a linear drain plonked somewhere within the paving would look bloody daft, so you could consider....

• a central run of linear drain along the 20m axis, say around 14m in length, so that it is 3m from the top/bottom edges
• a central channel directing surface water to a couple of yard gullies at either end
• a linear drain laid just inside the outside edge
• a couple of yard gullies, either on the centre line or on the outside corners
• a larger gully positioned centrally

...as you can see, there's more than one way to drain a pavement, and you need to decide which suits the project and your pocket. You need to consider the outfall points, ie, where the water will drain to, but all the above options are, in my opinion at least, aesthetically acceptable.

Enhancing the Front door
The simplest solution for this common problem is to build a feature step. A semi-circle always looks good and they're relatively simple to construct. Human nature is such that a new visitor will survey the paving to look for a visual prompt as to door position, and a step is one hell of a visual prompt!!

Pedestrian Cattle Grid
Consult a local blacksmith or light engineering company.

Choice of Products
All the manufacturers listed on the Links page produce top quality pavers. I have my own favourites, but then, it's not me that has to live with your paving for the next 20-odd years. The biggest selling colour in the UK is 'Brindle' and my personal fave is the 60mm brindle manufactured by Marshalls at their Ramsbottom plant. It has a better spread of colours than brindles from their other plants, and is richer in tone than comparable products from, say Tarmac TopPave, Eaton or Charcon, but then, it's only available in the north-west, and brindle doesn't work with every property.

Send me a pic of your house, tell me whereabouts you live, and I'll give you a "Tony's Top Three" but the final choice should be yours.

11 quid per m² for a multicoloured 200x100 paver is fair. You can actually buy for less if you're in the trade (around 9 quid per m²) but that's only to be expected.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "2:1 ratio random runner pattern" - maybe it's a term unique to your country.

For any pattern, I would need to know the block sizes involved, so that I can work out the placement. You mention squares and rectangles - is it a situation where 2 squares cover the same area as 1 rectangle?

In Europe, paving is bought by area rather than number of blocks, which makes things much easier.  

With a random pattern, the ratio of squares to rectangles is variable. However, as the paver layer, you are in a position to determine that, for example, there will be twice as many squares as rectangles. So, in such a case, the way to calculate the number of pavers required is....

Ratio = 2S:1R
        = 2 x (140x140) : 1 x (210x140)
        = 39,200 : 29,400
        = 1.3:1

...in terms of ordering, divide the total area of the job by 2.3. The result is the total area of Rectangles required, and then simply multiply by 1.3 to determine the area of Squares.

F'rinstance, you have a 150m² job to be laid in the 2S:1R pattern.....

150 ÷ 2.3 = 65.2 - so, you need 65.2 m² of Rectangles, and then 65.2 x 1.3 = 84.8m², which is the area of Squares required.

Just to check, 65.2 + 84.8 does indeed = 150  

Is that what you mean?

We had a thread on this a couple of weeks ago - was it PAJ and his never-ending rain???

Just had a look and it was PAJ's thread - take a look at the "Paving in the rain" thread in this archive.

you're in luck, posting your message just as I'm on my nightly rounds!

Anyway, to kill the moss, you can use Sodium Chlorate, bleach (dilute at 10:1), Jeyes Fluid (expensive) or any commercially available weedkiller. It'll take about a week to kill it off, and then it should be simply a matter of brushing the pavement clean.

You could try power washing, but be careful not to blast out the jointing sand, and keep the lance at an oblique angle.

A sealant will keep the moss at bay in most cases, and the best sealant depends on the type of finish you want, ie, gloss, satin, matt, and the type of paving, ie, clay or concrete. It's hard to find a sealant any better than those produced by Resiblock. Some sealants may be just as good, but none are better, IMHO.

There's more info, and links, on the Sealants page.

Iron sulphate produces nasty rust-like markings on concrete and they are more or less impossible to shift. Is that because of the Iron, the Sulphate, or a combination of the two?

I remain ambivalent about sealing driveways. It's a wise investment if you want to keep those neat, pristine looks, and it's essential for some surfaces, such as PIC, but for natural stone or the more rugged/natural looking pavements, I don't think it's all that important. It really is a matter of personal taste, I suppose.

Does that make sense?

I know some contractors lay the kerbs as an afterthought, but we find that, with no firm haunch, the edges of the pavement can drift during construction, and then you're waiting for the haunching to harden before you can consolidate the paving, whereas, if you lay the kerb first, the backing concrete has set by the time you've laid the rest of the blocks.

Somwehere around 45-55 quid per square metre seems to be the going rate for 200x100 standard blocks paving, althought it can get up to 70 quid and more per m² in the South-east or on smaller jobs.

40 quid per m² is a keen price, just a bit lower than what we see in and around Manchester/Liverpool. However, my survey of national prices includes the made-up big numbers from contractors working in London and the south-east and their prices push the average cost per m² to more or less 50 quid per square metre.

For the soldiers, I'd rather trim Drivesetts than play about with different blocks. Drivesett are quite easy to trim in a splitter and the cropped edge looks more authentic than a sawn edge on tumbled blocks.

But, have you considered using 120mm Drivesetts, Drivesett Deco or even Drivesett cobbles? They are small enough to accommodate your radii.

When it comes to laying the drive, I'm sure you could do it yerself, but it might take you more than a week, if you're starting from scratch. With a mini-digger and a bit of good organisation, along with favourable weather, it could be done, but I'll wait till I see your house pix before committing meself one way or t'other.

What do you mean by edges getting 'lost'? If they're laid on and haunched with concrete, there's nowhere for them to go, and they will retain the rest of the paving.

With regard to your schedule, I reckon 3 days to lay the soldiers is unduly pessimistic. You should be able to do it in 2 days, but then, I reckon you might need 3 days for the sub-base, the gravel and the paths, so it's all academic, really.

The only weather that can stop you is hard frost or torrential rain, and, as far as I know, neither is on the menu for next week. Bloody cold today, though!

Or do you mean "upstand", like a kerb provides?

If you go with the 160x120mm units, a good-looking wide-ish soldier is a 160 wide block on the outside, a 120 in the centre, and then another 160 on the inner edge...

...as in this detail from a recent design.

We don't see it up here in t'north-west of England but it seems it's slightly more expensive than Tegula/Drivesett. Lafarge, like almost every other larger manufacturer, will not sell direct to one-off customers, so you'd have to buy via a buliders' merchant, anyway, so give your local BM a call and ask them for a price.

All the other manufacturers have their own versions of a tumbled block - Woburn from Charcom/Bradstone, Alpha from Brett, Clifton from Formpave, Priory/Chelsea from RMC - once one manufacturer has a 'good idea' it's never long before the rest of them are on the band-wagon. so it might be worth looking at other options!

22 m² is just a bit more than 2 full packs, but the Tegs come with each size in a separate pack, so, to get a decent mix, the BM is going to have to split the packs, or you'll end up with twice as many 120x160s (smalls) as 240x160s (large).

Have they told you what 'mix' of sizes they'll supply?

You've ordered more or less bang on 22m² with no allowance for wastage or cutting - will you have enough? There's nowt worse than being a half-metre short of finishing, as that only ever happens after the BM has shut up for the weekend!

When do you start laying?

I think the forecast for the coming week is pretty naff, but hopefully it'll pick up again by next weekend.

I know what you mean about the wagon drivers - if you're waiting for them, they don't land until 4 in the afternoon, but if you're struggling, they're on site before dawn has broken. They seem to think normal folk keep the same ungodly hours that they do - many of them load up the night before so they can be onsite even earlier, and grumble even more about 'being kept waiting'. I've never understood why they think turning up at 6am is a good idea - most sites don't start until 7.30 or 8am at the earliest!

Looking forward to the piccies - have you got a six-pack belly now?

I'm not with you on Q1 - what's the difficulty in making the area of extension tally with the existing?

On Q2, if you're taking up an existing soldier course, you can use a length of timber as a temporary brace. Position the timber (a length of 100x50 or similar) so that's it's tight up against the exposed block edges, then use road pins or steel dowels to fasten the timber in place. Old sleepers make good temporary braces, too, and they don't usually need bracing.

Try to keep any vehicles at least a metre away from the exposed edge for the duration, and get it re-paved asap. You may need to take up a half metre or so of the existing blocks to accommodate the new extension levels.

But, whether you re-lay the old, or replace with new, you're going to need a vib plate to do the job properly. Ideally, you'd partially compact the bedding layer before laying the blocks, and then you need the plate to consolidate the blocks and rattle in the jointing sand once the paving is laid.

Were you hoping to avoid the hire charges?

2 - Eh? Do you mean you're having a lawn with a 4 metre radius? I can't follow what you mean!

As for your lawn edging, if you've a 4x4 lawn, then the size of radius you choose is a matter of personal taste. Using a 4m radius would take a big chunk off the lawn, but would give you a nice, easy turn. A 3m radius is a good size for a private driveway, and owt faster than around 2m radius is uncomfortable for vehicles, but OK for pedestrians.

If it were down to me, I'd go with a 3m radius.

If it's help to ensure the setting out is 'square', then you need to use the 3-4-5 triangle trick, as explained on the Setting Out Construction Lines page.

If it's help with summat else, you'll have to give me more info.

Just use normal jointing sand and, within 3 months, it will have crusted over with natural 'crud' and will seal itself. If you have any problem with 'scour', then use Keybond or similar to stabilise the sand in the short term, but, I can more or less guarantee that, by this time next year, you'll not even notice the slightly wider joints.

Incidentally, just how severe is this change of direction to create joints that are noticeably wider than normal? Most 'rollovers' only widen the joint by 1-2mm.

I'd still like to see the pics, though.

Yes, try Keybond or WJC from Resiblock. That should eliminate the problem of scour. It's probably worth cleaning the pavement first and topping up the joints with fresh, genuine jointing sand before applying one of these stabilising compounds.

Let me know how you get on.

1. - they are the wrong type of brick
2. - they are more expensive than the right type of brick
3. - the spacer lugs on the sides will be on show
4. - unless they are bone dry, they cause the mortar to 'bleed', making a right sodding mess of your work
5. - they will always look like block pavers

...but, as I said, it's you that has to live with it, and if that's what you want, then there's nowt to stop you.

My advice would be to use as stiff a mortar as possible and to lay them on a decent concrete footing, as shown in the brickwork section of the site.

Flexible construction is simpler, cheaper and faster than rigid paving, and so it grabs a large slice of the European market on cost grounds alone. Rigid paving is not often specc'ed for residential driveways, even those taking slightly heavier-than-normal vehicles, such as you describe.

Assuming you have a reasonable sub-grade, most British/Irish contractors would specify flexible paving, possibly using a geo-membrane between the sub-grade and a 150-225mm thick sub-base, and, assuming it was properly laid, there should be no problems for 10-15 years, ne'er mind 3-5 years.

But, as some acronym-lover once said, YMMV, and it's always best to follow local advice. If the local tradition is for rigid paving, then go with it, but it's probably worth getting a quote for flexible construction, just to see if it's any cheaper.

But to answer your question directly; I would say that rigid construction is overkill for the project you describe.

...would it be possible to use a concrete sub-base over the pipe in place of the more usual granular material? I've shown the concrete sub-base extending 450mm beyond the excavation limits of the pipe trench, but actual site conditions may vary.

You could also use a 'hogback curve' to accommodate the levels. This involves a 'hump' over the pipe, rather than a flat bone from the top to the bottom of the drive. With a bit of careful setting out, this can actually look quitre natural and intentional - there's more about hogback curves on the Profiling page - take a look at the sketch for a transition ramp, which is the sort of thing I have in mind.

99% (roughly) of weeds can not grow through a properly constructed block pavement, but even a weed membrane will not stop them growing into a block pavement, anchoring themselves in the sand-filled joints.

Weed membranes are, in almost every case, an utter waste of time and money when used beneath block paved residential drives and patios

most ready mixed Concrete companies will add an anti-freeze to their concrete if they anticpate temps of below 4C and falling. If you have the concrete delivered at, say, 10am on Saturday, and it's a typical semi-dry kerb mix, you should get a good 4-6 hours working time with it, and have the kerbs laid and haunched before the temp drops significantly, but it's probably still worth checking what the supplier recommends - they're far more 'in touch' with the local weather than I am.

Normally, though, on residential works, the end strength of kerb mix isn't a major concern - as long as it 'sets' and doesn't fall apart, it'll do, and so anti-freeze isn't normally added. If you cover the exposed concrete with sand, hessian or summat like that, it will help keep the worst of any frost off the concrete while it sets overnight.

Come Sunday, I reckon you should be ok with the compaction, as long as the kerbs are held in place with the lower soldier course, as previously described. Don't go mad with the vib plate - you can get a basic level of compaction, enough to consolidate and rattle in the jointing sand, and then go over it again in a week or so, once the rest of that paving is in place and providing full support to the kerb.

With your kerb, try to keep the upstand, that is, the amount of kerb sticking up above the paving level, to no more than 125-150mm. Most road kerbs are set to this level, as it minimises damage to wheels and tyres, and ensures doors opening aren't bashing against the kerb.

There's nowt to stop you having, say, 185mm of upstand, if you want, and as long as the kerbs are bedded and haunched as shown, they'll be fine.

Anyway, to briefly answer your questions....

1 - Clay pavers in HD applications - You could try reading "The structural design of heavy duty pavements for ports and other industries: 3rd edition" from the British Ports Association and also "The use of pavers for Aircraft Pavements" 1996 from The Civil Aviation Authority.

2 - laying the blocks - assuming you opt for a flexible construction, then the basic laying method outlined on the Laying Blocks page would be the way to proceed.

3 - jointing - a 12mm joint is excessive and will be a weakness in the finished pavement. You need to limit joint width to 2-5mm and rely on sand joints to generate sufficient inter-brick friction to spread the loads imposed on the finished pavement.

4 - paver size - depending on the lab results you're receiving for compressive and tensile stengths, I'd guess that you'd need to provide an 80 or 100mm thick paver. Typical plan size for British clay pavers is 200-215 X 100-107 X 65/80mm, and there are standards (BS6677) governing dimensional accuracy and required minimum strengths.

I'm sorry I'm not able to give comprehensive answers, but what you're asking is highly technical and beyond the scope of the free service I provide in this forum. I strongly recommend you get yourself a professional consultant.

If I were you, I'd do it.

Well, if Resiblock don't have any contact details, then all you can do is ask around the local contractors, or call in at your local BMs to see if they sell the Resiblock and, if they do, who they sell it to - that might get you somewhere.

I had a look through my photo library but I don't have a single piccie of any form of Tegula or Drivesett that's been treated with a sealant. Odder still, I don't ever remember seeing a Tegula Pavement that's been sealed, or I would have tried to get a photo, if only for my own interest.